[Football] PELE

crodonilson · Feb 11, 2020

Just seen a tweet from the Moose on Talksport that his friend Pele is very ill and wishing him the very best on his recovery.

Quite simply the greatest of all time, I am sure we are all as the football family wishing him the very best in coming through.

:nono:

schmunk · Feb 11, 2020

My kindest wishes to Peel and hope he can recover to celebrate the 50th anniversary this summer.

Stat Brother · Feb 11, 2020

[tweet]1226790318126878720[/tweet]

Icy Gull · Feb 11, 2020

Can’t go out without a walking frame and is so embarrassed that he tries not to go out at all, according to his son. So sad

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51451057

Cadiz Seagull · Feb 11, 2020

Definitely agree the greatest of all time in one of the best teams of all time.

Brovion · Feb 11, 2020

Cadiz Seagull said:
Definitely agree the greatest of all time in one of the best teams of all time.

Absolutely. The greatest player of all time, and a member (Brazil 1970) of the greatest, most exciting team of all time.

This summer it'll be 50 years since that amazing tournament! :ohmy:

That England v Brazil game is still one of the best games I've ever seen, not least of course because it contains two moments that even now are absolutely iconic. (The tackle by Moore and the save by Banks).

studio150 · Feb 11, 2020

Pele scored a world record total of 1,281 goals in 1,363 appearances during his 21-year career, including 77 goals in 91 appearances for Brazil.

Not a bad record

Hugo Rune · Feb 11, 2020

I know he is very poorly and all but this lazy sentimentalist dogma of ‘the greatest ever’ needs to be scrutinised.

Messi is clearly greater, you might want to add Maradonna and C.Ronaldo to that list as well.

Hope he feels much better very soon, he is undoubtedly a legend and one of the greatest ever.

Icy Gull · Feb 11, 2020

Hugo Rune said:
I know he is very poorly and all but this lazy sentimentalist dogma of ‘the greatest ever’ needs to be scrutinised.

Messi is clearly greater, you might want to add Maradonna and C.Ronaldo to that list as well.

Hope he feels much better very soon, he is undoubtedly a legend and one of the greatest ever.

Tend to agree, he played in a Brazil team that was head and shoulders above everyone else unless you hacked them down, which became the go to for teams to compete in the end. He was a fabulous player but I’m not convinced that he was any better and maybe not even as good as the ones you mention. And yes I did see him play when I was a young kid

LlcoolJ · Feb 11, 2020

I always thought he was worse than Jason Lee?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4fzeK3SQa4

Lower West Stander · Feb 11, 2020

Hugo Rune said:
I know he is very poorly and all but this lazy sentimentalist dogma of ‘the greatest ever’ needs to be scrutinised.

Messi is clearly greater, you might want to add Maradonna and C.Ronaldo to that list as well.

Hope he feels much better very soon, he is undoubtedly a legend and one of the greatest ever.

Opinions I know but I really don't know how you can say Messi was "clearly" better.

Different times but the guy won three world cups. Messi has never really cut it on the international stage.

George Best is my favourite player of all time but I could never say whether he was better than Pele or not....

Not Andy Naylor · Feb 11, 2020

Icy Gull said:
Tend to agree, he played in a Brazil team that was head and shoulders above everyone else unless you hacked them down, which became the go to for teams to compete in the end. He was a fabulous player but I’m not convinced that he was any better and maybe not even as good as the ones you mention. And yes I did see him play when I was a young kid

It would be interesting to see him play with the level of protection players get from referees nowadays. And to see how Messi or Ronaldo would cope with being kicked up in the air every time they went near the ball. He had the vision and game intelligence of Messi but was very strong and could head the ball very well too. I'd say the best modern comparison would be Cristiano Ronaldo but without the preening arrogance.

LlcoolJ · Feb 11, 2020

Not Andy Naylor said:
It would be interesting to see him play with the level of protection players get from referees nowadays. And to see how Messi or Ronaldo would cope with being kicked up in the air every time they went near the ball. He had the vision and game intelligence of Messi but was very strong and could head the ball very well too. I'd say the best modern comparison would be Cristiano Ronaldo but without the preening arrogance.

Or Jason Lee.

Questions · Feb 11, 2020

Cadiz Seagull said:
Definitely agree the greatest of all time in one of the best teams of all time.

That 1970 side is still my favourite of all time.

blue-shifted · Feb 11, 2020

Icy Gull said:
Can’t go out without a walking frame and is so embarrassed that he tries not to go out at all, according to his son. So sad

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51451057

If I could say one thing to Pele it would be .......

"you've nothing to be embarrassed about champ. You're a hero to many, many millions around the world. We all grow old. You can hold your head up high"

Hugo Rune · Feb 11, 2020

Lower West Stander said:
Opinions I know but I really don't know how you can say Messi was "clearly" better.

Messi’s goal-to-game ratio at Barca is astounding and amazes me every time I read it. Just awe inspiring.

blue-shifted · Feb 11, 2020

I read a statistics based article about a year ago which examines all known video archive of Pele, (ie whole matches, not just clips) compared it to a similar amount of footage from Messi, Maradona and Ronaldo and compared pass completion rates, shooting accuracy etc etc

Conclusion, was that Messi was comfortably in front of Ronaldo, but just behind Pele.

I'm sure you could argue about how the stats were gathered, but I'd make the point that you as you clearly can't easily compare across eras, you have to judge it by how dominant were they against their peers and how did they perform in the biggest arenas

To me Pele's 1000+ career goals don't count for that much, neither does Messi in his favoured position in a billion pound team continually putting teams with 1000 times less resources to the sword.

What matters is World Cups. Have you won it? Have you personally dominated a tournament? Have you dragged a team through it? Have you managed to dominate a tournament in different eras? Pele for me.

blue-shifted · Feb 11, 2020

Hugo Rune said:
Messi’s goal-to-game ratio at Barca is astounding and amazes me every time I read it. Just awe inspiring.

It is incredible and beats anyone else from this era, but doesn't the ridiculous concentration of wealth and talent in the two top Spanish teams take the shine off it a bit? I mean it's still an amazing feat, but if the subject matter is best player the evidence needs to stand up to scrutiny

Commander · Feb 11, 2020

blue-shifted said:
I'm sure you could argue about how the stats were gathered, but I'd make the point that you as you clearly can't easily compare across eras, you have to judge it by how dominant were they against their peers and how did they perform in the biggest arenas

To me Pele's 1000+ career goals don't count for that much, neither does Messi in his favoured position in a billion pound team continually putting teams with 1000 times less resources to the sword.

What matters is World Cups. Have you won it? Have you personally dominated a tournament? Have you dragged a team through it? Have you managed to dominate a tournament in different eras? Pele for me.

This is a fair point, I think. Messi has never really done it in a world cup, where as players like Pele, Maradona and even Zidane have draggef their teams almost single-handedly through tournaments. Messi is clearly one of the best ever, but the standard of 90% of La Liga outside Barca and Real Madrid is pretty poor, considering the level of the players he has had playing alongside him. If Messi really wanted to be considered as the best ever, then he should have had the balls to come to the Premier League, to show that he can do it another environment. Like Ronaldo has.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Feb 11, 2020

Hugo Rune said:
I know he is very poorly and all but this lazy sentimentalist dogma of ‘the greatest ever’ needs to be scrutinised.

Messi is clearly greater, you might want to add Maradonna and C.Ronaldo to that list as well.

Hope he feels much better very soon, he is undoubtedly a legend and one of the greatest ever.

'Messi is clearly greater' - Really?

It's all about opinions but how many headed goals does Messi score?

How many world cups has Messi won?

Different era - different ball, pitches, referees, opposition etc. but IMO to say Messi is clearly greater' is wrong -it's really impossible to compare.

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