[Football] Handball Rule Farce

Shooting Star · Jan 19, 2020

Watching Palace City highlights on MOTD today. Cross comes in, Palace player has hands out as he tries to block the cross. Ball hits his foot, bounces onto his outstretched arms. Ref gives penalty but VAR overturns it as apparently the handball rules say if it bounces off a part of the body onto the arms it's not a foul.

However, if the City player had hit his ball at the Palace player's arms directly, it most certainly would have been given as a penalty as his arms would have been adjudged as being in an unnatural position (hence why many defenders are going into block the ball with their arms behind their backs). But because he hit it at his foot causing it to bounce up onto his unnaturally positioned arms, it's not a penalty? Bizarre. The rules of handball have to be looked at. I don't care which way they determine, but there has to be some consistency.

BensGrandad · Jan 19, 2020

It becomes a farce when you compare that 'handball' to the Declan Rice one for a disallowed goal recently. 1 was handball 1 wasnt acording to VAR.

drew · Jan 19, 2020

BensGrandad said:
It becomes a farce when you compare that 'handball' to the Declan Rice one for a disallowed goal recently. 1 was handball 1 wasnt acording to VAR.

Wrong, it is according to the rules, not VAR. What the OP is on about is creating equality between attackers and defenders. Currently, accidental hand ball by attacker rules out a goal but accidental hand ball by defender isn't a penalty. It should be same for both. Either accidental hand ball (provided it's not the hand that puts the ball in the net) doesn't rule out a goal and isn't a pen or accidental hand ball does rule out a goal and is a pen.

Green Cross Code Man · Jan 19, 2020

drew said:
Wrong, it is according to the rules, not VAR. What the OP is on about is creating equality between attackers and defenders. Currently, accidental hand ball by attacker rules out a goal but accidental hand ball by defender isn't a penalty. It should be same for both. Either accidental hand ball (provided it's not the hand that puts the ball in the net) doesn't rule out a goal and isn't a pen or accidental hand ball does rule out a goal and is a pen.

Without the accursed var, that Declan Rice goal would have justifiably stood.

BensGrandad · Jan 19, 2020

drew said:
Wrong, it is according to the rules, not VAR. What the OP is on about is creating equality between attackers and defenders. Currently, accidental hand ball by attacker rules out a goal but accidental hand ball by defender isn't a penalty. It should be same for both. Either accidental hand ball (provided it's not the hand that puts the ball in the net) doesn't rule out a goal and isn't a pen or accidental hand ball does rule out a goal and is a pen.

Isnt that what happened with Declan Rice the ball glanced his arm through no effort by him, goal disallowed for handball.

drew · Jan 19, 2020

Green Cross Code Man said:
Without the accursed var, that Declan Rice goal would have justifiably stood.

Very possibly but the fact remains it is the rule that disallowed the goal, not the VAR. VAR just was able to identify the breach of the rule!

Personally, I think they need to change the rule so that accidental hand ball is not an offence by the attackers. That will give them equality with the defenders.

southstandandy · Jan 19, 2020

There was also a handball in the build up to Neto's goal in the Southampton vs Wolves game yesterday. But because it was deemed to be too early in the move that led to the goal (apparently 21 seconds earlier) VAR didn't rule it out. It definitely touched the players arm in the move that led to the goal, albeit it was clearly accidental, a bit like the one with Declan Rice last week.

When and how far does VAR go back to consider an infraction in the build up to a goal? In the penalty area, the half way line, 5 seconds before a goal is scored, 10 seconds? I thought any handball in the build up to a goal (in the move leading up to a goal) by the attacking team would see it ruled out - as the rules currently stand. Has something changed?

Obviously they must draw a line at about 20 seconds otherwise the Wolves goal would have been ruled out.

drew · Jan 19, 2020

BensGrandad said:
Isnt that what happened with Declan Rice the ball glanced his arm through no effort by him, goal disallowed for handball.

And the current rule is that if the ball touches the attackers arm during the build up to a goal, accidentally or not, then the goal is disallowed. It's been like that all season!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47429316

BensGrandad · Jan 19, 2020

drew said:
And the current rule is that if the ball touches the attackers arm during the build up to a goal, accidentally or not, then the goal is disallowed. It's been like that all season!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47429316

That is the point that we agree on, it is wrong and hen doubled up with thje Palace 'handball' which was more blatant but deemed not handball within the laws. This then makes the law a farce.

Super Steve Earle · Jan 19, 2020

Green Cross Code Man said:
Without the accursed var, that Declan Rice goal would have justifiably stood.

As I've said on two other posts, if Declan Rice had got away with with scoring that goal against Albion, I would have still been angry now. His arm nudged the ball into his path to score. It was justifiably disallowed and showed the value of VAR.

Gazwag · Jan 19, 2020

Super Steve Earle said:
As I've said on two other posts, if Declan Rice had got away with with scoring that goal against Albion, I would have still been angry now. His arm nudged the ball into his path to score. It was justifiably disallowed and showed the value of VAR.

He didn't score

Green Cross Code Man · Jan 19, 2020

Super Steve Earle said:
As I've said on two other posts, if Declan Rice had got away with with scoring that goal against Albion, I would have still been angry now. His arm nudged the ball into his path to score. It was justifiably disallowed and showed the value of VAR.

I wouldn't have been cross, the ball flew into his arm as he ran. I don't regard it as done on purpose. It should have stood.

BensGrandad · Jan 19, 2020

Green Cross Code Man said:
I wouldn't have been cross, the ball flew into his arm as he ran. I don't regard it as done on purpose. It should have stood.

I agree

Green Cross Code Man · Jan 19, 2020

drew said:
Very possibly but the fact remains it is the rule that disallowed the goal, not the VAR. VAR just was able to identify the breach of the rule!

Personally, I think they need to change the rule so that accidental hand ball is not an offence by the attackers. That will give them equality with the defenders.

Yes, you are right, it is the rule at fault. But I will still blame var as without var most of these situations wouldn't have happened. var has ruined the moment when we score. You notice now there is a moment when the crowd cheer a goal followed by uncertainty and the a var cheer when it is allowed or disallowed. Rubbish. How many fantastic goals have been ruled out now, and how sad that football is losing its joyful spontaneity.

drew · Jan 19, 2020

Super Steve Earle said:
As I've said on two other posts, if Declan Rice had got away with with scoring that goal against Albion, I would have still been angry now. His arm nudged the ball into his path to score. It was justifiably disallowed and showed the value of VAR.

I take it you didn't actually see the goal then!!

Super Steve Earle · Jan 19, 2020

Green Cross Code Man said:
Yes, you are right, it is the rule at fault. But I will still blame var as without var most of these situations wouldn't have happened. var has ruined the moment when we score. You notice now there is a moment when the crowd cheer a goal followed by uncertainty and the a var cheer when it is allowed or disallowed. Rubbish. How many fantastic goals have been ruled out now, and how sad that football is losing its joyful spontaneity.

Like Swansman, speak for yourself. I enjoy VAR and cheer a goal exactly the same as I ever did. I am not losing any of my joyful spontaneity and as a fan of a non 'big club' my gut feeling is that it works in our favour. In the first two seasons in the Prem, it was statistically proven we would have been higher up the table with VAR. This season, who knows, but I'd rather have accurate decisions due to VAR than rely on the quality of ref dished up for us this season.

Super Steve Earle · Jan 19, 2020

drew said:
I take it you didn't actually see the goal then!!

Yeah, fair cop. Not His goal, but my point remains :smile:

drew · Jan 19, 2020

Super Steve Earle said:
Like Swansman, speak for yourself. I enjoy VAR and cheer a goal exactly the same as I ever did. I am not losing any of my joyful spontaneity and as a fan of a non 'big club' my gut feeling is that it works in our favour. In the first two seasons in the Prem, it was statistically proven we would have been higher up the table with VAR. This season, who knows, but I'd rather have accurate decisions due to VAR than rely on the quality of ref dished up for us this season.

Tend to agree but it is, as far as our league is concerned, in it's very infancy. We're about two years behind some of the other leagues in Europe and they have tweaked it to improve VAR. Big improvements would be to remove the technology for the lines for working out offsides, in other words look at a replay and if it looks offside then it is, if you can't tell, the goal stands. The hand ball rule needs to be 'equalized' so it's the same criteria for attackers as well as defenders. Refs need to use the pitchside monitors and the info needs to go on the screens quicker.

Green Cross Code Man · Jan 20, 2020

Super Steve Earle said:
Like Swansman, speak for yourself. I enjoy VAR and cheer a goal exactly the same as I ever did. I am not losing any of my joyful spontaneity and as a fan of a non 'big club' my gut feeling is that it works in our favour. In the first two seasons in the Prem, it was statistically proven we would have been higher up the table with VAR. This season, who knows, but I'd rather have accurate decisions due to VAR than rely on the quality of ref dished up for us this season.

That is a cheap shot to liken me to Swansman and pretty offensive. I believe you are very much in the minority and am not speaking out of turn. I am glad for you that you enjoy every goal as before, but elsewhere I watch people celebrate initially and then lose excitement as they wait for var to rule out or allow the goal.

Super Steve Earle · Jan 20, 2020

Green Cross Code Man said:
That is a cheap shot to liken me to Swansman and pretty offensive. I believe you are very much in the minority and am not speaking out of turn. I am glad for you that you enjoy every goal as before, but elsewhere I watch people celebrate initially and then lose excitement as they wait for var to rule out or allow the goal.

Cup half full/Cup half empty. No intent to offend. You lose excitement, I enjoy anticipation. You wait for the goal to be ruled out, I wait for it to be confirmed.

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