[News] Sultan of Oman - RIP

Is it PotG? · Jan 11, 2020

Sad to hear the passing of a great world leader after 50 years in charge.

I worked there for a while, and the man was revered. After attending Sandhurst he took over in 1970. He took the country forward significantly, and made it, imho, by far the most amazing country in the region.

Certainly end of an era.

RossyG · Jan 11, 2020

I can’t share your enthusiasm for such personages.

From Wikipedia and bearing in mind that Oman is ruled by an unelected monarch:

“Inspired by the Arab Spring uprisings taking place throughout the region, protests occurred in Oman during the early months of 2011. Although they did not call for the ousting of the regime, demonstrators demanded political reforms, improved living conditions and the creation of more jobs. They were dispersed by riot police in February 2011. Sultan Qaboos reacted by promising jobs and benefits. In October 2011, elections were held to the Consultative Assembly, to which Sultan Qaboos promised greater powers. The following year, the government began a crackdown on internet criticism. In September 2012, trials began of 'activists' accused of posting "abusive and provocative" criticism of the government online. Six were given jail terms of 12–18 months and fines of around $2,500 each.”

Is it PotG? · Jan 11, 2020

RossyG said:
I can’t share your enthusiasm for such personages.

From Wikipedia and bearing in mind that Oman is ruled by an unelected monarch:

“Inspired by the Arab Spring uprisings taking place throughout the region, protests occurred in Oman during the early months of 2011. Although they did not call for the ousting of the regime, demonstrators demanded political reforms, improved living conditions and the creation of more jobs. They were dispersed by riot police in February 2011. Sultan Qaboos reacted by promising jobs and benefits. In October 2011, elections were held to the Consultative Assembly, to which Sultan Qaboos promised greater powers. The following year, the government began a crackdown on internet criticism. In September 2012, trials began of 'activists' accused of posting "abusive and provocative" criticism of the government online. Six were given jail terms of 12–18 months and fines of around $2,500 each.”

Whilst I take on board this Wiki info, and I do not dispute there were unemployment demos in 2011, I prefer the larger scenario where his leadership is credited with drastically improving living standards in Oman by reforming a nation that was home to only three schools and harsh laws banning electricity, radios, eyeglasses and even umbrellas when he took power.

He used oil revenues during his reign to build schools, roads and hospitals, as well as encouraging the development of private enterprises.

He also outlawed slavery in the same year he came to power - once an important part of the Omani economy.

RossyG · Jan 11, 2020

Other fun facts:

The practice of torture is widespread in Oman state penal institutions and has become the state's typical reaction to independent political expression. Torture methods in use in Oman include mock execution, beating, hooding, solitary confinement, subjection to extremes of temperature and to constant noise, abuse and humiliation.

The Omani government decides who can or cannot be a journalist and this permission can be withdrawn at any time.

The law prohibits criticism of the Sultan and government in any form or medium. Oman's police do not need search warrants to enter people's homes.

Is it PotG? · Jan 11, 2020

RossyG said:
Other fun facts:

The practice of torture is widespread in Oman state penal institutions and has become the state's typical reaction to independent political expression. Torture methods in use in Oman include mock execution, beating, hooding, solitary confinement, subjection to extremes of temperature and to constant noise, abuse and humiliation.

The Omani government decides who can or cannot be a journalist and this permission can be withdrawn at any time.

The law prohibits criticism of the Sultan and government in any form or medium. Oman's police do not need search warrants to enter people's homes.

I do love a bit of Wiki. I can only end by stating how well we were treated during our time there. Tales of when the Al Bustan Palace Hotel was built and what benefits went to the moved village, the liberal approach to purchase of alcohol and the most stunning scenery will stick in the memory.

Enjoy the bad bits.

RossyG · Jan 11, 2020

Is it PotG? said:
...his leadership is credited with drastically improving living standards in Oman by reforming a nation that was home to only three schools and harsh laws banning electricity, radios, eyeglasses and even umbrellas when he took power.

He also outlawed slavery in the same year he came to power - once an important part of the Omani economy.

Well, they were certainly steps in the right direction.

Is it PotG? · Jan 11, 2020

RossyG said:
Well, they were certainly steps in the right direction.

Compared to others in the region, indeed they were.

PILTDOWN MAN · Jan 11, 2020

Of course he also enjoyed a bit of swinging

Kalimantan Gull · Jan 11, 2020

Is it PotG? said:
I do love a bit of Wiki. I can only end by stating how well we were treated during our time there. Tales of when the Al Bustan Palace Hotel was built and what benefits went to the moved village, the liberal approach to purchase of alcohol and the most stunning scenery will stick in the memory.

Enjoy the bad bits.

Apparently 43% of the population are expats, clearly the economy based around these and not surprised treated well.

I guess it depends on what kind of country one wants, whether a free press, freedom of speech, democratic elections and so on are desired. If one doesn't care about that sort of thing, or is on the side of the ruler, then I'm sure such countries can be great. But if you find yourself in opposition, it's likely to be a horrible place. But having seen what 'democracy and a free press' has done and is doing to our own country, I'm far less idealistic about this sort of thing. A benign dictatorship certainly has its merits as a way to run a country (as long as its my kind of dictator :lol:

)

On a global political scale, having a stable Oman is certainly preferable to the cluster****s we see in other countries, and I would worry about its direction in the future. I was contemplating the other day that, although I have nothing but revulsion for the way the Saudis run their country, and their intervention in Yemen, I'm nonetheless grateful for a strong and stable Saudi Arabia as a counterpoint to Iranian aggression in the region.

knocky1 · Jan 11, 2020

Pinochet was also very good at building roads and schools.Plus of great military assistance during the Falklands war. I was very grateful driving around the country on empty dual carriageways shortly after his demise.

Swansman · Jan 11, 2020

Wikipedia is a giant Western propaganda machine, no shit they are going to pull out the dumbest shit they do in Oman and put the spotlight on it while you have to look long and hard to see any critisism of CIA sanctioned states and leaders.

Anyway, respect to this man - to this sad day one of the last Arab leaders truly loyal to his country and his people. Turning a country from close to nothing to a relatively well functioning state is a massive feat, especially since they did it "on their own". Not much colonial influence, never becoming the vassal of anyone and while there was protests in the Arab Spring (a.k.a. the Western infiltration) there wasnt enough people who could be brainwashed to really think they had a bad leader. Will be interesting to see if the new dude brings any changes, good or bad. They have the resources to make more noise than they've historically done.

RossyG · Jan 11, 2020

Ok then, Swansman, Wikipedia aside...

Do they have democracy in Oman?

Does the ruling elite decide who can be journalists?

Do people who criticise the sultan run the risk of being imprisoned?

What happens to gay people in Oman?

Swansman · Jan 11, 2020

Kalimantan Gull said:
I guess it depends on what kind of country one wants, whether a free press, freedom of speech, democratic elections and so on are desired.

They should try that somewhere.

knocky1 · Jan 11, 2020

The lack of a Sunni or Shia majority could explain how they've sat on the sidelines.

"Most Omanis (about three-quarters of the country) belong to the Ibadi Muslim faith—meaning they are followers of the Abd Allah ibn Ibad—but there are some Shia and Sunni Muslims as well. Oman is the only country in the Muslim world with an Ibadi-majority population."

Swansman · Jan 11, 2020

RossyG said:
Ok then, Swansman, Wikipedia aside...

Do they have democracy in Oman?

Does the ruling elite decide who can be journalists?

Do people who criticise the sultan run the risk of being imprisoned?

What happens to gay people in Oman?

No, and neither do you. Any party you vote for is a neo-liberal party taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich. Its a well established yet overlooked fact that despite our so called democracy, Western countries are run by their oligarchs.

Second question: probably. Sultan Qaboos in Oman, Rupert Murdoch in the UK.

Third question: likely they would get a similar treatment to i.e. Julian Assange or other western people imprisoned for "risking national security" a.k.a. bringing the bad shit into the spotlight.

Homosexuality is illegal in Oman, like polygamy is illegal in the Western world.

RossyG · Jan 11, 2020

So in your view no difference between Oman and Britain then?

Western democracies are no different to dictatorships?

Every journalists, even ones online or in underground mags, are all puppets of the oligarchs?

I’m totally bewildered by your third point. There are people in the streets waving placards saying **** Boris and the like and are tolerated. They would not be tolerated in Oman. They’d be in prison possibly being tortured.

And in what way is being born gay comparable with polygamy?

Surf's Up · Jan 11, 2020

The assumption that western style democracy is the only globally acceptable model of government has caused almost as much division, bloodshed and misery as Christianity.

chimneys · Jan 11, 2020

Swansman said:
No, and neither do you. Any party you vote for is a neo-liberal party taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich. Its a well established yet overlooked fact that despite our so called democracy, Western countries are run by their oligarchs.

Second question: probably. Sultan Qaboos in Oman, Rupert Murdoch in the UK.

Third question: likely they would get a similar treatment to i.e. Julian Assange or other western people imprisoned for "risking national security" a.k.a. bringing the bad shit into the spotlight.

Homosexuality is illegal in Oman, like polygamy is illegal in the Western world.

Pathetic points, particularly the last! Will give you the benefit of the doubt and call it ignorance rather than homophobia.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jan 11, 2020

RossyG said:
So in your view no difference between Oman and Britain then?

Western democracies are no different to dictatorships?

Every journalists, even ones online or in underground mags, are all puppets of the oligarchs?

I’m totally bewildered by your third point. There are people in the streets waving placards saying **** Boris and the like and are tolerated. They would not be tolerated in Oman. They’d be in prison possibly being tortured.

And in what way is being born gay comparable with polygamy?

This

This thread began exactly like a thread by [MENTION=3385]crodonilson[/MENTION], except.... :moo:

Live by the sea · Jan 11, 2020

He has probably done more to help the ordinary working class people of his country than most Dictators across the Arab world. The bar is unfortunately quite low though in that regard.

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[News] Sultan of Oman - RIP

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