[Albion] Potterball, your opinions so far?

Stat Brother · Dec 4, 2019

AZ Gull said:
Nope. It simply isn't worth my time to look for one. You've heard of google, haven't you?

Pretty much any Albion fan on NSC will confirm that the club have consistently maintained that, over a number of years.

But if you don't want to believe me, don't believe me.

Walk away AZ.

As you say:-

we all know - JRG doesn't want to know.

Jolly Red Giant · Dec 4, 2019

AZ Gull said:
Nope. It simply isn't worth my time to look for one. You've heard of google, haven't you?

Tried to find the interview last night - and I am pretty good at finding stuff (its part of my job) - couldn't make any headway - so would appreciate a little assistance.

AZ Gull said:
Pretty much any Albion fan on NSC will confirm that the club have consistently maintained that, over a number of years.

But if you don't want to believe me, don't believe me.

I have seen (and linked to) numerous articles over the past six months that argued differently about transfers

As for believing you - well - like I wouldn't expect you to believe me without some evidence, I would appreciate something to demonstrate the claim is accurate. Specifically on these latest comments - [MENTION=7321]casbom[/MENTION] posted a link - I read the article which I think is a very interesting and informative article (did you by any chance?) and I commented on the article - [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] stated that Barber said the opposite yesterday and I asked for a link (I didn't ask for anyone to pull their teeth out with a pliers). Hell - even tell me where and when the interview was broadcast and I'll go off and look for it again.

Stat Brother said:
we all know - JRG doesn't want to know.

Now you are talking bullsh*t - there have been numerous occasions where I have acknowledged I was wrong - I argued against the signing of Ryan based on reports from my brother-in-law who lives in Valencia and is a season ticket holder - I was wrong about him (in fact my brother-in-law is here with me at the moment and has said he is shocked that Ryan has done so well because he showed nothing while he was in Spain). I also argued against the signing of Duffy - who I regarded as reckless - and argued instead for Hughton to sign John Egan. I still think that Egan will be a better player in the long run, but I most definitely was wrong about Duffy and I think credit has to go to Hughton for coaching him up. Now - I also accept that Duffy is not a fit for Potter's game and wouldn't be surprised to see him shipped out.

I look at evidence and I draw conclusions based on such evidence - when new or contradictory evidence is produced then it is necessary to re-evaluate your original conclusions and see if they need to be amended - and I do that every day in my working life.

dazzer6666 · Dec 4, 2019

Jolly Red Giant said:
Tried to find the interview last night - and I am pretty good at finding stuff (its part of my job) - couldn't make any headway - so would appreciate a little assistance.

I have seen (and linked to) numerous articles over the past six months that argued differently about transfers

As for believing you - well - like I wouldn't expect you to believe me without some evidence, I would appreciate something to demonstrate the claim is accurate. Specifically on these latest comments - [MENTION=7321]casbom[/MENTION] posted a link - I read the article which I think is a very interesting and informative article (did you by any chance?) and I commented on the article - [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] stated that Barber said the opposite yesterday and I asked for a link (I didn't ask for anyone to pull their teeth out with a pliers). Hell - even tell me where and when the interview was broadcast and I'll go off and look for it again.

Had a quick look but can’t find it.....there was an extract on either facebook or twitter yesterday too. It was on the Jim White show on Talksport, around 10.30am yesterday. Went on for several minutes.

AZ Gull · Dec 4, 2019

Stat Brother said:
Walk away AZ.

Sage advice. :thumbsup:

symyjym · Dec 4, 2019

AZ Gull said:
The club have consistently, over a period of time, stated that the manager has the final say on incoming players.

Yes. We have a choice of Tweedledum and Tweedledee which one do you want? :lolol:

Jolly Red Giant · Dec 4, 2019

dazzer6666 said:
Had a quick look but can’t find it.....there was an extract on either facebook or twitter yesterday too. It was on the Jim White show on Talksport, around 10.30am yesterday. Went on for several minutes.

Found it -

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1575367200/1575369000/

And Barber did not state what you claimed he stated - he did not say that the first team coach has the final say (implying that Hughton had the final say) - he actually confirmed that the club's hierarchy were intent on changing the direction of the club long before Hughton was sacked - he pointed to the hiring of Ainsworth as part of that process. He also stated that a recruitment team identify potential transfer targets and that they target people that fit with their philosophy. He said they were committed to building a squad for Potter and that Potter would be a head coach, not a manager, but would have the final say on the player (you should note that this means that Potter does not identify potential targets - he has a yea or nay on whether the transfer is completed). In fact I would suggest that there is clear evidence in the interview that potentially backs up the claims in the article.

Furthermore, contrary to your suggestion that they backed Hughton in last seasons transfer window and now have to unload his players - it is clear to me from what Barber said that they had already made the decision to change direction before last season and that the transfer targets were identified based on this new strategy. From Hughton's perspective (and I have no evidence to confirm this) - he was likely handed a list and told pick who you want from this list - like Potter, there is no indication that Hughton had any role in identifying the transfer targets. May I add that the club clearly backed Hughton in 2016 by getting Duffy, Norwood, Murray, Sidwell - there maybe a debate about how concretely they backed in in 2017 in terms of the players brought in - but I think it is clear that the 2018 transfers were based on the new club direction - Montoya, Bissouma, Ali J, Burn, Tau, even Andone, in my opinion are all players more suited to Potter's gameplan than what Hughton would do. Last point - it also contradicts the statements made at the time of Hughton's sacking that he was sacked because of the 3 wins in 23 games.

Now I am sure you will disagree with my assessment of the interview - but the link is there now if people want to listen to it.

Guinness Boy · Dec 4, 2019

Anyone doubting how good Potter is wants to look at how Everton are getting absolutely ripped by a Liverpool team containing several reserves. We should have got a point.

Jolly Red Giant · Dec 4, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
Anyone doubting how good Potter is wants to look at how Everton are getting absolutely ripped by a Liverpool team containing several reserves. We should have got a point.

It was a Merseyside derby

BensGrandad · Dec 4, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
Anyone doubting how good Potter is wants to look at how Everton are getting absolutely ripped by a Liverpool team containing several reserves. We should have got a point.

Perhaps but the records and league table will show that we didnt so not really relevant one way or the other. Everybody knows one game is different to the next and because we nearly got a point at Anfield has no relevance to tomorrow at The Emirates. FWIW I think that we can get at least a point against Arsenal.

dazzer6666 · Dec 4, 2019

Jolly Red Giant said:
Found it -

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1575367200/1575369000/

And Barber did not state what you claimed he stated - he did not say that the first team coach has the final say (implying that Hughton had the final say) - he actually confirmed that the club's hierarchy were intent on changing the direction of the club long before Hughton was sacked - he pointed to the hiring of Ainsworth as part of that process. He also stated that a recruitment team identify potential transfer targets and that they target people that fit with their philosophy. He said they were committed to building a squad for Potter and that Potter would be a head coach, not a manager, but would have the final say on the player (you should note that this means that Potter does not identify potential targets - he has a yea or nay on whether the transfer is completed). In fact I would suggest that there is clear evidence in the interview that potentially backs up the claims in the article.

Furthermore, contrary to your suggestion that they backed Hughton in last seasons transfer window and now have to unload his players - it is clear to me from what Barber said that they had already made the decision to change direction before last season and that the transfer targets were identified based on this new strategy. From Hughton's perspective (and I have no evidence to confirm this) - he was likely handed a list and told pick who you want from this list - like Potter, there is no indication that Hughton had any role in identifying the transfer targets. May I add that the club clearly backed Hughton in 2016 by getting Duffy, Norwood, Murray, Sidwell - there maybe a debate about how concretely they backed in in 2017 in terms of the players brought in - but I think it is clear that the 2018 transfers were based on the new club direction - Montoya, Bissouma, Ali J, Burn, Tau, even Andone, in my opinion are all players more suited to Potter's gameplan than what Hughton would do. Last point - it also contradicts the statements made at the time of Hughton's sacking that he was sacked because of the 3 wins in 23 games.

Now I am sure you will disagree with my assessment of the interview - but the link is there now if people want to listen to it.

What did you think Barber meant when he said ‘.......but the first and last word is with the head coach ?’ when talking about player recruitment? This has been spouted many times by the club (hence others on here referring to it before you butted in) -it’s nothing new. Bloom has been explicit in the past (fan’s forums for example) in that if CH didn’t want a player the team had identified he wouldn’t be hired.

Also, before that, he was talking about the investment in Potter and his team, and how he needed to secure that investment because of the wider investment (in players) that surrounds his appointment.

You’re hearing what you want to hear. Crack on fella, I’m out.

Jolly Red Giant · Dec 4, 2019

dazzer6666 said:
Bloom has been explicit in the past (fan’s forums for example) in that if CH didn’t want a player the team had identified he wouldn’t be hired.

Does this equate to saying that if CH wanted a player the club went out and tried to get him?

dazzer6666 said:
Also, before that, he was talking about the investment in Potter and his team, and how he needed to secure that investment because of the wider investment (in players) that surrounds his appointment.

Yes he was - and it is absolutely the right approach - however, the question is whether the same applied when Hughton was in charge given that Barber said that they had already made the decision to change direction - and that their recrutiment policy was based on the direction the club was going in - that they brought in Ainsworth for that purpose and that it was the reason they changed manager.

dazzer6666 said:
You’re hearing what you want to hear. Crack on fella, I’m out.

If that is the case I don't think I am the only one

rogersix · Dec 4, 2019

Jolly Red Giant said:
It is a very interesting piece -

It also stated that the club bought players that were not suited to Hughton's approach - so much for CH having a say over transfers. If you buy players that don't do what the manager needs to do then you really need to ask what is going on - and why Brighton didn't sack Hughton after the first season instead of depriving him of the players he needed to build his squad last season resulting in the scramble against relegation.

you can't name 22 CB's in your squad and expect to stay up......... can you?

rogersix · Dec 4, 2019

Jolly Red Giant said:
If the club's hierarchy were intent buying players based on changing the style of play without considering the outlook of manager then they really should have talked to CH at the end of 2017-18 - and if agreement wasn't likely then they should have parted ways. Instead the approach seems to have been - we can't sack him after one season in the PL - lets give him players that he can't use, hope to survive and then dump him. It would have far more respectful to have parted company a year earlier when his reputation wasn't tainted by the football he was forced to play because of the squad available - and made ham available for jobs at Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Aston Villa, etc. In fact - given that they bought players that didn't suit what Hughton was doing - his success at keeping the club in the PL is even more remarkable.

utter madness

rogersix · Dec 4, 2019

Jolly Red Giant said:
Bissouma was something like £17million - but that is not really the issue - the club spent over £50million the previous summer - what if it had been spent on players that Hughton could have and would have used. How much better would the team have been in that situation?

ten and a half taller men behind the ball?

symyjym · Dec 4, 2019

Jolly Red Giant said:
Does this equate to saying that if CH wanted a player the club went out and tried to get him?

I would say that this could probably apply regarding Kayal, Hemed, Rosenior, Best, Duffy, Goldson and maybe Bong.

But I think it would be fair to say that every signing outside the English leagues like Skalak, and Hunemeier , Ali, Jose, Scheloto, Gross, Propper, Montoya, Andone, Locadia etc was a club choice, and if Hughton didn't accept what was offered he may have got no one. I think Hughton was happy with just managing the players and he trusted the club and recruitment to do their job. If Hughton pushed for the players he specifically had in mind he may have got them.

rogersix · Dec 4, 2019

Jolly Red Giant said:
I have not posted a single comment on here about Hughton that has not been in response to what I consider is an unwarranted criticism of CH - and I have continued to comment about the Irish players at the club through this stuff. I keep getting accused of stuff that I am not doing - case in point - several posters claimed that I was only interested in the Irish players at Brighton because I was attacking the decision to drop Duffy - I never made a single comment about Duffy being dropped - in fact I understand the reason why Potter has done so. People repeatedly read stuff into my comments that isn't there and they do so because I dare to express and opinion that is contrary to that of the majority (with the constant false accusation that I support another team or that I am only posting on here about CH and I am only interested in trolling)

Again - go back and read the comments I made here - I specifically state that the club's hierarchy was entitled to do whatever they want to do with the club because they own it - I also specifically stated that my comments were based on the accuracy of the article - and I did not suggest some 'conspiracy theory'. Specifically on the transfers - the article suggested that the club decided on a change in direction after the 17/18 season - it stated that the players they purchased were decided on with this change in direction in mind - it stated that Hughton had to work with players that did not suit his game plan when he was trying to prevent relegation last season - and I suggested that maybe the club's hierarchy should have considered making a managerial change at the end of 17/18 if they really wanted to take the club in a different direction. If you read my comments you will see that I am arguing that, if the article is accurate, in my view it would have been more appropriate for Bloom to have sacked Hughton a year earlier than he did. You are seeing 'conspiracy' theories in my comments because you want to - not because they are there. Now [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] has suggested that Barber's comments in the interview yesterday contradict this article - I haven't heard the interview - if dazzer or someone else has a link please post it as I would like to listen to it - and if dazzer's interpretation of the interview is accurate then it will be necessary for me to revise my comments in the light of this new evidence.

you need a job, hobby, or both

rogersix · Dec 4, 2019

Jolly Red Giant said:
It was a Merseyside derby

how do you know all this stuff?

rogersix · Dec 4, 2019

BensGrandad said:
Perhaps but the records and league table will show that we didnt so not really relevant one way or the other. Everybody knows one game is different to the next and because we nearly got a point at Anfield has no relevance to tomorrow at The Emirates. FWIW I think that we can get at least a point against Arsenal.

good post

Guinness Boy · Dec 5, 2019

whosthedaddy said:
Well?

We're 14 games into the 2019/2020 season with 15 points to show for our efforts, now Graham Potter's at the helm, do you see him steering us into calm waters or into choppy seas?

Here's my tuppence worth for starters...

I've been at all bar one of Albion's Premier League home games, and all bar one of our away games and I'm wondering where our tactics are going wrong.
I see improvements in terms of ball possession, we're freely passing the ball around in our own half but when it gets to the final third it all goes a bit pear-shaped. I can see what Potter is trying to do and get from our players, but it's work in progress to say the least.
The time it takes for our midfield to shift through the gears and get the ball into dangerous areas for our stiker(s) to latch it onto means that in the main the opposition are likely to have enough players back to repel our slow paced attacks.

At Watford I witnessed us moving with pace across the pitch, we attacked down either wing, Montoya was immense in that game and Dunk and others were playing defence splitting passes, Watford didn't know what had hit them.

Since then, and more frequently, we are being ponderous on the ball, our attacks are slow and the movement ahead of the player with the ball is not good enough from some. Connolly and Maupay are running their socks off up front but it reminds me of CMS in a way, loads of running but little in the way of ball retention or making quality chances to shoot at goal.
Midfield has issues, too many sideways passes, sometimes far too many passes just for the sake of it and without any purpose, and lack of ball retention when challenged by opposition players although I see improvements in Dale Stephens for sure.

I feel like we are missing some vital ingredients like hunger, passion, pace, leaders on the pitch. Truth be told I'm now missing what Knockaert brought to some of our games. We've no-one else like him who can spark the team into life, but boy do we need his type of energy, enthusiasm and all-round zest for the game and for winning at this moment in time.

As I said, it's work in progress but what's your take on things so far?

UTA

A ha ha ha. Ha ha. Ha.

:lolol:

You're a ****ing idiot.

And so are [MENTION=30242]spence[/MENTION] [MENTION=33329]Jolly Red Giant[/MENTION] and [MENTION=267]TSB[/MENTION]

Happy away day win at a big side everyone :bigwave:

whosthedaddy · Dec 6, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
A ha ha ha. Ha ha. Ha.

You're a ****ing idiot.

And so are [MENTION=30242]spence[/MENTION] [MENTION=33329]Jolly Red Giant[/MENTION] and [MENTION=267]TSB[/MENTION]

Happy away day win at a big side everyone

I presume you were there then at the Emirates just like me to help cheer the Albion on to a deserved victory??

Aaaah! Perhaps not as you posted this soon after the final whistle you keyboard warrior :thumbsup:

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