[Politics] Labour Anti Semitism - Against the faith or the Israeli State?

Comrade Sam · Nov 22, 2019

I am a Jew, I am a Labour Party member and I am a supporter of Palestinian rights. I am horrified how the Labour Friends of Israel and the Jewish Labour Group have united with the right wing press and particularly the right wing Jewish press, to mobilise a massive attack on Jeremy Corbyn. This has happened for two reasons: one to attack all critics of Israel, which whilst under the leadership of a mashugana like Netanyahu must be condemned, and to stop the coming to power of a social reforming government. It is disgusting that so many of those launching these attacks have never made any attempts to confront genuine anti-semites, fascists, racists and nasty ******** like Trump, Boris, Modi and Victor Orban, but are content to attack the character of a man that has dedicated his life to the struggle against all forms of racism. Five minutes on the internet and you will uncover racist horrors going mostly unchallenged by Tories. It reminds me of Al Frankens book 'Lies and the lying liars' about Fox News and the gulf war. If you repeat a baseless lie from as many separate sources as possible it becomes a fact by the weight of its existence. Read Labour's Manifesto and you will see why these people hate Corbyn, he plans to take on the political, economic and media establishment and try and reverse 40 years of Thatcherism. If anything all this anti semitism bull is letting genuine anti Semites go unchallenged and make people think there really is a Zionist conspiracy trying to control the countries political and economic direction. To condemn the actions of Israel is not anti semitic. And don't get me started on Jo Swinson.

NooBHA · Nov 22, 2019

Swansman said:
The leadership of the Zionist entity are the true anti-semites and in some instances even Nazi collaborators and I ****ing hate that media etc finds it perfectly fine to mock Orthodox jews but dont allow a bad word about the Zionist fraction. So much history is "hidden" (though its there, official and all, if you really dig into it). Some examples of the disgusting actions and non-actions of the Zionist leadership:

In 1938 Zionist leader Golda Meir turned down Hitler's offer to let Jews leave Germany for $250 per person.

In 1940 Zionist leader Henry Ford said no to helping Jewish refugees stuck in the Danube river, saying "

In 1941 and 1942 Gestapo offers the Zionist leaders to escort Jewish families to Spain for $1000 per family (paid at arrival in Spain) with some preconditions: 1) none of the deported can go to Palestine, b) all of the deported gets asylum in USA or UK/UK colonies. The Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey who got this offer turned it down, meaning only Palestine was good enough. These leaders very well knew that the alternative to accepting this offer was the gas chambers.

In 1944 the same offer is given about the Hungarian jews, but again the Zionist leaders says no.

In December 1942 the UK parliament had a plan to move 500 000 Jews from Germany to different UK colonies. Negotiations with the German government started, but the Zionist leaders in UK said no, meaning it was not an option as long as Palestine was excluded.

16th February 1943, Romania says 70 000 Jewish refugees in the Trans-Dniestra region to leave for 50$ per person. Yitzhak Greenbaum of the Jewish Agency in Tel-Aviv said of the offer: "when they asked, could you organization help us with the money, I said no, and I say no again, you have to reject these offers that put the Zionist activity second. A cow in Palestine is more important than a thousand Jews in Europe". One week later, Stephen Wise, a zionist leader in the US, also turned the offer down.

In 1947, after the war was over, US politican William Station said they should immediatly allow 400 000 Jews still in refugee camps (refusing to move to Israel since it is against Orthodox beliefs). Zionist leaders publicly said no.

Ten years later, hundreds of thousands of Jews refusing to move to Israel still lived in refugee camps. When Canadian politician JW Pickersgill got the question "cant you open your doors for these Jews?", he said "Yes... but the Israeli government dont want us to".

The UK government gave 300 rabbis and their families visas to move to Mauritius (going through Turkey). The Jewish Agency sabotaged the plan, saying it was "disloyal against Palestine".

1941, Jews of the Israeli nationalist organisation Lehi or "Stern Gang" tells the German government they could collaborate because:
1. There could be common interest between the new, German Europe and a Zionist state in Palestine. 2. Not only common interests but collaboration would be possible between these states. 3. A deal with the German goverment considering a Zionist state could strengthen the German power in the Middle East.

They also suggested Jewish men to be trained by the German army in order to easily take over Palestine.

Mind you, the terrorists of the Stern Gang held very high positions in the Israeli state when it was formed.

That's a very informative post. I wasn't aware of most of it

Invicta · Nov 22, 2019

midnight_rendezvous said:
View attachment 117437

Says it all really.

Disagree, he has had numerous occasions to set the story straight. Never seems to do it.

Guinness Boy · Nov 23, 2019

Comrade Sam said:
I am a Jew, I am a Labour Party member and I am a supporter of Palestinian rights. I am horrified how the Labour Friends of Israel and the Jewish Labour Group have united with the right wing press and particularly the right wing Jewish press, to mobilise a massive attack on Jeremy Corbyn. This has happened for two reasons: one to attack all critics of Israel, which whilst under the leadership of a mashugana like Netanyahu must be condemned, and to stop the coming to power of a social reforming government. It is disgusting that so many of those launching these attacks have never made any attempts to confront genuine anti-semites, fascists, racists and nasty ******** like Trump, Boris, Modi and Victor Orban, but are content to attack the character of a man that has dedicated his life to the struggle against all forms of racism. Five minutes on the internet and you will uncover racist horrors going mostly unchallenged by Tories. It reminds me of Al Frankens book 'Lies and the lying liars' about Fox News and the gulf war. If you repeat a baseless lie from as many separate sources as possible it becomes a fact by the weight of its existence. Read Labour's Manifesto and you will see why these people hate Corbyn, he plans to take on the political, economic and media establishment and try and reverse 40 years of Thatcherism. If anything all this anti semitism bull is letting genuine anti Semites go unchallenged and make people think there really is a Zionist conspiracy trying to control the countries political and economic direction. To condemn the actions of Israel is not anti semitic. And don't get me started on Jo Swinson.

A large post full of stuff that actually seems reasonable whether you agree with it or not. And then, in your last sentence, you betray yourself. The real Corbynistas are spending this whole campaign attacking Swinson and the Lib Dems. Why? Because they know they can’t beat Boris.

There’s the real measure of Corbyn. A leader who is so pathetic he’s given up any hope of beating a racist, mendacious, bumbling fool who took over a government with a barely functioning majority and turned it in to one with a chaotic minority.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Invicta · Nov 23, 2019

Comrade Sam said:
I am a Jew, I am a Labour Party member and I am a supporter of Palestinian rights. I am horrified how the Labour Friends of Israel and the Jewish Labour Group have united with the right wing press and particularly the right wing Jewish press, to mobilise a massive attack on Jeremy Corbyn. This has happened for two reasons: one to attack all critics of Israel, which whilst under the leadership of a mashugana like Netanyahu must be condemned, and to stop the coming to power of a social reforming government. It is disgusting that so many of those launching these attacks have never made any attempts to confront genuine anti-semites, fascists, racists and nasty ******** like Trump, Boris, Modi and Victor Orban, but are content to attack the character of a man that has dedicated his life to the struggle against all forms of racism. Five minutes on the internet and you will uncover racist horrors going mostly unchallenged by Tories. It reminds me of Al Frankens book 'Lies and the lying liars' about Fox News and the gulf war. If you repeat a baseless lie from as many separate sources as possible it becomes a fact by the weight of its existence. Read Labour's Manifesto and you will see why these people hate Corbyn, he plans to take on the political, economic and media establishment and try and reverse 40 years of Thatcherism. If anything all this anti semitism bull is letting genuine anti Semites go unchallenged and make people think there really is a Zionist conspiracy trying to control the countries political and economic direction. To condemn the actions of Israel is not anti semitic. And don't get me started on Jo Swinson.

Views that are contrary to the Jewish press and leaders in the UK. Very hard to understand for the average person.

Sirnormangall · Nov 23, 2019

Comrade Sam said:
I am a Jew, I am a Labour Party member and I am a supporter of Palestinian rights. I am horrified how the Labour Friends of Israel and the Jewish Labour Group have united with the right wing press and particularly the right wing Jewish press, to mobilise a massive attack on Jeremy Corbyn. This has happened for two reasons: one to attack all critics of Israel, which whilst under the leadership of a mashugana like Netanyahu must be condemned, and to stop the coming to power of a social reforming government. It is disgusting that so many of those launching these attacks have never made any attempts to confront genuine anti-semites, fascists, racists and nasty ******** like Trump, Boris, Modi and Victor Orban, but are content to attack the character of a man that has dedicated his life to the struggle against all forms of racism. Five minutes on the internet and you will uncover racist horrors going mostly unchallenged by Tories. It reminds me of Al Frankens book 'Lies and the lying liars' about Fox News and the gulf war. If you repeat a baseless lie from as many separate sources as possible it becomes a fact by the weight of its existence. Read Labour's Manifesto and you will see why these people hate Corbyn, he plans to take on the political, economic and media establishment and try and reverse 40 years of Thatcherism. If anything all this anti semitism bull is letting genuine anti Semites go unchallenged and make people think there really is a Zionist conspiracy trying to control the countries political and economic direction. To condemn the actions of Israel is not anti semitic. And don't get me started on Jo Swinson.

Ok - but why have so many Jewish supporters of the Labour Party deserted it?

clapham_gull · Nov 23, 2019

Invicta said:
Views that are contrary to the Jewish press and leaders in the UK. Very hard to understand for the average person.

I'm an average person and understand the situation to be incredibly nuanced and clouded by history and wrong doing on both sides.

In my opinion Corbyn has done the correct thing on Brexit and said I'm going to remain neutral whilst trying to find a solution, but historically he has decided not to do that on the subject of Israel and Palestine.

I don't blame him for that at all, he's been consistent and admirably supported the Palestinian worthy cause.

However it's difficult to play for one team first half and then decide to be elected referee at half time. That's Corbyn's problem.

Live by the sea · Nov 23, 2019

The constant sniping about Israel whilst totally ignoring various other countries doing far worse is in itself anti Semitic .

Nottseagull · Nov 23, 2019

NooBHA said:
That's a very informative post. I wasn't aware of most of it

Nor me, but he doesn't state what I suspect, i.e. that those financial 'offers' by the Nazis were actually for ransoms, not payable by the evacuees themselves because they had been stripped of all their capital and assets.

John Byrnes Mullet · Nov 23, 2019

Absolute rubbish. I know many Jews and they say this anti-semitic behaviourist is just not true. But the Jews with big money are shittng themselves over a Corbyn government so I guess this is why this keeps hitting the news.

Neville's Breakfast · Nov 23, 2019

daveinplzen said:
I consider anti semitism as against the Jewish faith. Seems that the Israeli State propaganda machine has managed to make normally sane people believe that criticism of their behaviour is anti semitic. As it is frequently used to slag off Corbyn, and the Labour Party, what is your opinion?

Straw man argument as per usual. The anti semitism that people object to shouldn’t need defining to anyone who paid attention in History at school; conspiracy theories, scapegoating, allusions to Jewish control of the media and banking, downplaying of the suffering of the Holocaust. I see the leader of U.K Extinction rebellion is prone to that last one.Your brand of apologism for anti semitism is dog whistling to the highest degree. You and others like you are the only ones mentioning Israel. All the while there are people such as yourself spouting ignorance there will be a need for Israel as a place of safety for Jews. A thousand years of History tells us that much.
Oh and congratulations for creating a thread for all the usual racist, conspiracy nuts to gather and share their offensiveness. I’m sure you are enjoying the read.

wellquickwoody · Nov 23, 2019

daveinplzen said:
I consider anti semitism as against the Jewish faith. Seems that the Israeli State propaganda machine has managed to make normally sane people believe that criticism of their behaviour is anti semitic. As it is frequently used to slag off Corbyn, and the Labour Party, what is your opinion?

Shock of shocks........I could entirely almost entirely agree with you. That said, there still is a problem, albeit minor, within the Labour Party. And if that gives me more ammunition then I will use it :lol:

That said, I also dislike how the Jewish faith/community will call anything and everything anti Semitic. Could be graffiti on a synagogue (without actual reference to Judaism), a comment on integration or one of a number of other things, but very often the Jewish community will call “anti-semitism” when it is nothing of the sort.

I wonder if the Jewish community and the Scousers swap campaigning tips?

Neville's Breakfast · Nov 23, 2019

daveinplzen said:
I consider anti semitism as against the Jewish faith. Seems that the Israeli State propaganda machine has managed to make normally sane people believe that criticism of their behaviour is anti semitic. As it is frequently used to slag off Corbyn, and the Labour Party, what is your opinion?

wellquickwoody said:
Shock of shocks........I could entirely almost entirely agree with you. That said, there still is a problem, albeit minor, within the Labour Party. And if that gives me more ammunition then I will use it

That said, I also dislike how the Jewish faith/community will call anything and everything anti Semitic. Could be graffiti on a synagogue (without actual reference to Judaism), a comment on integration or one of a number of other things, but very often the Jewish community will call “anti-semitism” when it is nothing of the sort.

I wonder if the Jewish community and the Scousers swap campaigning tips?

There you go Dave. You have some lovely fellow travellers. Btw just to correct at least one of your statements; anti semitism is a whole lot more than attacks on the Jewish faith, just as Islamophobia is a whole lot more than attacks on the Muslim faith. I’m off to Sussex for the game now. I will leave you two dinosaur bigots to your love in.

wellquickwoody · Nov 23, 2019

Neville's Breakfast said:
There you go Dave. You have some lovely fellow travellers. Btw just to correct at least one of your statements; anti semitism is a whole lot more than attacks on the Jewish faith, just as Islamophobia is a whole lot more than attacks on the Muslim faith. I’m off to Sussex for the game now. I will leave you two dinosaur bigots to your love in.

Aww, bless you Nev. Have a lovely day now, and don’t forget to look for another campaign trail to jump on, There are snowflakes like you just everywhere waiting to find another sucker to the cause. Never know, there might be a non binary, victims of gammon trauma group collection going on outside the Amex that you can sign up with.

Guinness Boy · Nov 23, 2019

I'm guessing it's wine o'clock in Melbourne.

Bulldog · Nov 23, 2019

Swansman said:
The leadership of the Zionist entity are the true anti-semites and in some instances even Nazi collaborators and I ****ing hate that media etc finds it perfectly fine to mock Orthodox jews but dont allow a bad word about the Zionist fraction. So much history is "hidden" (though its there, official and all, if you really dig into it). Some examples of the disgusting actions and non-actions of the Zionist leadership:

In 1938 Zionist leader Golda Meir turned down Hitler's offer to let Jews leave Germany for $250 per person.

In 1940 Zionist leader Henry Ford said no to helping Jewish refugees stuck in the Danube river, saying "

In 1941 and 1942 Gestapo offers the Zionist leaders to escort Jewish families to Spain for $1000 per family (paid at arrival in Spain) with some preconditions: 1) none of the deported can go to Palestine, b) all of the deported gets asylum in USA or UK/UK colonies. The Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey who got this offer turned it down, meaning only Palestine was good enough. These leaders very well knew that the alternative to accepting this offer was the gas chambers.

In 1944 the same offer is given about the Hungarian jews, but again the Zionist leaders says no.

In December 1942 the UK parliament had a plan to move 500 000 Jews from Germany to different UK colonies. Negotiations with the German government started, but the Zionist leaders in UK said no, meaning it was not an option as long as Palestine was excluded.

16th February 1943, Romania says 70 000 Jewish refugees in the Trans-Dniestra region to leave for 50$ per person. Yitzhak Greenbaum of the Jewish Agency in Tel-Aviv said of the offer: "when they asked, could you organization help us with the money, I said no, and I say no again, you have to reject these offers that put the Zionist activity second. A cow in Palestine is more important than a thousand Jews in Europe". One week later, Stephen Wise, a zionist leader in the US, also turned the offer down.

In 1947, after the war was over, US politican William Station said they should immediatly allow 400 000 Jews still in refugee camps (refusing to move to Israel since it is against Orthodox beliefs). Zionist leaders publicly said no.

Ten years later, hundreds of thousands of Jews refusing to move to Israel still lived in refugee camps. When Canadian politician JW Pickersgill got the question "cant you open your doors for these Jews?", he said "Yes... but the Israeli government dont want us to".

The UK government gave 300 rabbis and their families visas to move to Mauritius (going through Turkey). The Jewish Agency sabotaged the plan, saying it was "disloyal against Palestine".

1941, Jews of the Israeli nationalist organisation Lehi or "Stern Gang" tells the German government they could collaborate because:
1. There could be common interest between the new, German Europe and a Zionist state in Palestine. 2. Not only common interests but collaboration would be possible between these states. 3. A deal with the German goverment considering a Zionist state could strengthen the German power in the Middle East.

They also suggested Jewish men to be trained by the German army in order to easily take over Palestine.

Mind you, the terrorists of the Stern Gang held very high positions in the Israeli state when it was formed.

I have no intention of spending my weekend checking that, but IF it's true, that is just beyond understanding. Thanks for having the guts to publicise it.

wellquickwoody · Nov 23, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
I'm guessing it's wine o'clock in Melbourne.

Absolutely. On my deck in the sunshine, 20 odd degrees, with a glass of quality local stuff at silly cheap prices. Bliss.

Just wonder why Nev has got so animated, vested interest maybe? Would be interesting to know.

daveinplzen · Nov 23, 2019

Neville's Breakfast said:
Straw man argument as per usual. The anti semitism that people object to shouldn’t need defining to anyone who paid attention in History at school; conspiracy theories, scapegoating, allusions to Jewish control of the media and banking, downplaying of the suffering of the Holocaust. I see the leader of U.K Extinction rebellion is prone to that last one.Your brand of apologism for anti semitism is dog whistling to the highest degree. You and others like you are the only ones mentioning Israel. All the while there are people such as yourself spouting ignorance there will be a need for Israel as a place of safety for Jews. A thousand years of History tells us that much.
Oh and congratulations for creating a thread for all the usual racist, conspiracy nuts to gather and share their offensiveness. I’m sure you are enjoying the read.

Being brought up in a Jewish family, trust me, Im aware of the history.
The question was regarding the Labour party, and as to whether the anti semitism they are accused of, is based on attacks against the faith, or the State.
I certainly enjoyed the read when you posted.

Live by the sea · Nov 23, 2019

jackanada said:
While I don't wish to diminish the issue of anti Jewish racism in the labour party, i am more disturbed by the number of labour MPs who are Friends of Israel without challenging it's fundamentally racist position of denying a Palestinian right of return.

Easy answer. Any MP who has spent even 5 mins looking into this, finds out that the Palestinian right to return in practice means the end of Israel as a Jewish state simply because of the large numbers involved. There are over 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and approx 10 million Jewish people. Even if only 1% could show Palestinian heritage, you do the maths.

So yes that’s why all decent far minded MP’s understand the right of return is a complete non starter but the idea of a two state solution with Palestinian being governed by a democratic govt whilst giving security assurances to Israel that they are not going to be attacked is the right way forward.

Hamas always talk about the right of return because they want to destroy Israel and rid it of its Jewish population. They don’t even try to disguise their aims.

So yes right of return is used largely in the Muslim world and by anti semites as code for getting rid of those pesky Jews.

NooBHA · Nov 23, 2019

Nottseagull said:
Nor me, but he doesn't state what I suspect, i.e. that those financial 'offers' by the Nazis were actually for ransoms, not payable by the evacuees themselves because they had been stripped of all their capital and assets.

The way I read and thought I understood was that it was Ransoms as well. Although some of the dates he mentions. The Jewish people in question would still have had monies themselves.

Not that I disbelieve Swansman but I am going to try and check if they are factual.

A friend of mine. Her family managed to leave Germany through Switzerland and her Father and Grandfather worked in the banking industry. So perhaps she might be able to validate these claims for me as she is extremely knowledgeable in Jewish History.

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