[Politics] Labour Anti Semitism - Against the faith or the Israeli State?

daveinplzen · Nov 22, 2019

I consider anti semitism as against the Jewish faith. Seems that the Israeli State propaganda machine has managed to make normally sane people believe that criticism of their behaviour is anti semitic. As it is frequently used to slag off Corbyn, and the Labour Party, what is your opinion?

darkwolf666 · Nov 22, 2019

My opinion is I agree with you. It seems that dark forces are afoot to paint anyone who dares criticise Israel and their less than innocent deeds, as being anti semetic.

Oh no, does that make me anti-semetic...?

midnight_rendezvous · Nov 22, 2019

Says it all really.

jakarta · Nov 22, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
My opinion is I agree with you. It seems that dark forces are afoot to paint anyone who dares criticise Israel and their less than innocent deeds, as being anti-sematici

Oh no, does that make me anti-sematic...?

If you can't actually spell anti-semitic properly I have problems with taking you seriously.

Anti-Semitism is not against the Jewish Faith, it is against Jewish People. I was at Auschwitz recently, the Germans didn't concentrate their efforts against Rabbis or even Orthodox Jews. It was the whole population.

Bozza · Nov 22, 2019

midnight_rendezvous said:
View attachment 117437

Says it all really.

Not sure it does.

I have no conviction at all that Corbyn is either of those things.

I do think he's an ineffective leader who has been unable to successfully deal with those within the Labour Party who do display those traits.

GT49er · Nov 22, 2019

jakarta said:
If you can't actually spell anti-semitic properly I have problems with taking you seriously.

Anti-Semitism is not against the Jewish Faith, it is against Jewish People. I was at Auschwitz recently, the Germans didn't concentrate their efforts against Rabbis or even Orthodox Jews. It was the whole population.

Thank you, yes, we do know what anti-Semitism (whether it's spelt correctly or not) is - trouble is, there are many who don't, and in their ignorance they conflate any criticism of Zionist expansionism, or any sign of goodwill towards the Palestinians, with anti-Semitism.

midnight_rendezvous · Nov 22, 2019

Bozza said:
Not sure it does.

I have no conviction at all that Corbyn is either of those things.

I do think he's an ineffective leader who has been unable to successfully deal with those within the Labour Party who do display those traits.

But being perceived to be unsuccessful at dealing with those in the Labour Party who are, or may be, anti-Semitic is not the same as being a racist or anti-Semitic himself, which is what he is constantly accused of, especially by the media. I wont deny that there are problems with antisemitism in the Labour Party, given that such bigotry is shockingly common in society it's not surprising that an organisation the size of Labour has a few horrible people kicking around. And, as much as I don't want to indulge in 'whataboutery', it's funny that this stick keeps coming back to bash Corbyn, yet the issue of Islamophobia within the Tory ranks is barely mentioned. It's almost as if having bigots in your party isn't actually the issue, it's more about which party they are in...

vegster · Nov 22, 2019

daveinplzen said:
I consider anti semitism as against the Jewish faith. Seems that the Israeli State propaganda machine has managed to make normally sane people believe that criticism of their behaviour is anti semitic. As it is frequently used to slag off Corbyn, and the Labour Party, what is your opinion?

I tend agree with you, every utterance from Jeremy Corbyn on the subject is to " Condem anti-Semitism and that it has no place in the Labour Party ". I suppose we can only judge him by what he says and he has been unequivocal in his condemnation.
Unfortunately Boris with his referring to black people as "piccaninnies" and talking about "watermelon smiles", and his equally infamous " letterboxes and bank robbers " quote when referring to Muslim women's dress seems acceptable or at least tolerable judging by the lack of criticism he has received. Odd ?

Pretty pink fairy · Nov 22, 2019

daveinplzen said:
I consider anti semitism as against the Jewish faith. Seems that the Israeli State propaganda machine has managed to make normally sane people believe that criticism of their behaviour is anti semitic. As it is frequently used to slag off Corbyn, and the Labour Party, what is your opinion?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50508399 who's worse

regards
DF

Raleigh Chopper · Nov 22, 2019

vegster said:
I tend agree with you, every utterance from Jeremy Corbyn on the subject is to " Condem anti-Semitism and that it has no place in the Labour Party ". I suppose we can only judge him by what he says and he has been unequivocal in his condemnation.
Unfortunately Boris with his referring to black people as "piccaninnies" and talking about "watermelon smiles", and his equally infamous " letterboxes and bank robbers " quote when referring to Muslim women's dress seems acceptable or at least tolerable judging by the lack of criticism he has received. Odd ?

Worse than that, people find it funny and just typical Boris.
What about the humbug comment, the constant lies.
How he gets away with the crap he comes out with is astounding.
Corbyn may be many things, but a racist he most certainly isn't and as for the idiots that believe he is because the media wants to paint him with that brush just because he is Labour, only goes to prove that there are many easily led fools out there.
But I do agree that he does seem to be having problems dealing with people in the Labour party that clearly have a problem with Jews.

Horses Arse · Nov 22, 2019

daveinplzen said:
I consider anti semitism as against the Jewish faith. Seems that the Israeli State propaganda machine has managed to make normally sane people believe that criticism of their behaviour is anti semitic. As it is frequently used to slag off Corbyn, and the Labour Party, what is your opinion?

Nailed it. As for that bint off countdown it seems her hair colour has caught up with her. Either that or she's a Tory propagander weapon.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

CheeseRolls · Nov 22, 2019

daveinplzen said:
I consider anti semitism as against the Jewish faith. Seems that the Israeli State propaganda machine has managed to make normally sane people believe that criticism of their behaviour is anti semitic. As it is frequently used to slag off Corbyn, and the Labour Party, what is your opinion?

There is more than an element of truth in this. However it is also equally true that there are elements within the Labour Party, who are anti-semitic and Corbyn has not been interested in stamping this out. Broadly they support his oppressed/oppressor Palestine/Israel agenda and dogmatic principles. Corbyn and labour are going to fail. Given the choice between a feckless liar and a dogmatic unwieldy leader, everything is pointing to the country preferring the feckless liar.

Eeyore · Nov 22, 2019

Corbyn's problem is that the anti-Semitic argument is now a political one. The right wing press know he is not a racist. Perhaps he has been unwise in his associations, believing that engagement is the key to solving issues.

There are folk in the Labour movement who have been on the end of a bashing for saying things that were not racist towards Jews. It's all very medieval.

But it's the age, I'm afraid. Less and less folk seem to want to stop, think and assess before jumping into a viewpoint.

Government by headlines.

The unfortunate truth is that a person who is racist, Katie Hopkins, said the most uncomfortable truth about this when she suggested that the word 'racist' is so diluted that it has little meaning anymore.

Sad times.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Nov 22, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
My opinion is I agree with you. It seems that dark forces are afoot to paint anyone who dares criticise Israel and their less than innocent deeds, as being anti semetic.

Oh no, does that make me anti-semetic...?

I agree with you.

And I am a big fan of Israel, been there twice, some of my best mates etc.

It's Bibi and his ilk that I dislike. Hopefully he's about to topple off his perch....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-benjamin-netanyahu-indicted-for-bribery-and

bWize · Nov 22, 2019

Some clearly don't understand the difference between anti-semitism and anti-zionism

Luckily these guys do...

Harry Wilson's tackle · Nov 22, 2019

midnight_rendezvous said:
View attachment 117437

Says it all really.

Not all, but most of it.

I have begun to realise that there are elements in the media who will attempt to beat Corbyn with any stick to hand. Even if it isn't a stick. Or to hand. :shrug:

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] is right about failing to deal properly with the 'situation' in his party, though.

One of my brothers cannot discuss antisemitism with me without soon ranting about the mistreatment of the Palestinians. Once people stop conflating these issues, all the 'no smoke without fire' will stop. Yes I appreciate that Corbyn's opponents are stoking the fire, but there is no need for Corbyn supporters to keep on falling into the same trap again and again (of conflation, and sounding like they are excusing the anti-Israel brigade).

Also it would help if the left remembered to condemn the Likud party and the corrupt current leader, and not keep condemning the 'state of Israel'. The State of Israel is legitimate. May as well condemn 'The State of the UK' when criticising Boris, or, indeed, the labour party.

Folk will of course spin it to suit their agenda.

Having condemned Corbyn for years, I'm now fed up with all this whataboutery. Boris is a gold plated thundercunt. Corbyn isn't. Moreover, he's our best chance of draining the Boris cesspit, so labour's getting my vote.

darkwolf666 · Nov 22, 2019

jakarta said:
If you can't actually spell anti-semitic properly I have problems with taking you seriously.

Anti-Semitism is not against the Jewish Faith, it is against Jewish People. I was at Auschwitz recently, the Germans didn't concentrate their efforts against Rabbis or even Orthodox Jews. It was the whole population.

I don't say this often, but **** off... My banana fingers combined with auto correct enabled the two incorrect spellings.

As for taking me seriously, to be honest I don't really care. You don't know be, I don't know you, but you just come across as a bully and snide for your quick witted quips!

Just for arguments sake, you clearly wouldn't take seriously the opinion of someone who is dyslexic.

Semitic
Semitic
Semitic

All a case of semantics, really, isn't it?...

Harry Wilson's tackle · Nov 22, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
I don't say this often, but **** off... My banana fingers combined with auto correct enabled the two incorrect spellings.

As for taking me seriously, to be honest I don't really care. You don't know be, I don't know you, but you just come across as a bully and snide for your quick witted quips!

Just for arguments sake, you clearly wouldn't take seriously the opinion of someone who is dyslexic.

Semitic
Semitic
Semitic

All a case of semantics, really, isn't it?...

I thought your post was perfectly clear and my eye glossed over the spelling. :shrug:

jakarta · Nov 22, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
I don't say this often, but **** off... My banana fingers combined with auto correct enabled the two incorrect spellings.

As for taking me seriously, to be honest I don't really care. You don't know be, I don't know you, but you just come across as a bully and snide for your quick witted quips!

Just for arguments sake, you clearly wouldn't take seriously the opinion of someone who is dyslexic.

Semitic
Semitic
Semitic

All a case of semantics, really, isn't it?...

I apologise if you had corrected your spelling error and anyone that knows me would know I do not bully anyone but my 'quick witted quips' aren't important, my objection was the original assertion made by another Poster that this issue was something about anti Judiasm as a religion.

As previously stated I witnessed just a couple of months ago at Auschwitz Birkenau that this simply wasn't and isn't the case.

Finally I have been to Israel and the West Bank as well and I do not sympathise with Israels policies, although I do understand their paranoia being surrounded by Countries that want to destroy them.

CheeseRolls · Nov 22, 2019

bWize said:
Some clearly don't understand the difference between anti-semitism and anti-zionism
Luckily these guys do...

View attachment 117439

The anti-semitism in Labour I think, is largely driven by intolerance to those who don't agree with them. Just as there is a difference between anti-semitism and anti-zionism, there is also a difference between the state of Israel and the government it elects. This distinction will be more apparent next year, as we get to watch our government to be in action. When you start to react to people who identify as friends of Israel as inhuman, it has some very uncomfortable echoes.

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