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[Other Sport] Saracens docked 35 points and fined £5.3m



Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,005
The arse end of Hangleton
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50300756

I don't generally follow Rugby but if only the EFL and FA had the same balls for rule breaking ! *** And yes I know the balls are a different shape before some smart Alec comes along ***
 






wehatepalace

wehatepalace

Limbs
Apr 27, 2004
7,292
Pease Pottage
A commendable stance by Premiership Rugby, it’s the equivalent of Man City getting docked points and facing potential relegation !
There will be some big crowds in the championship next season if they do eventually go down.
 


hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,295
Chandlers Ford
Westdene Seagull said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50300756

I don't generally follow Rugby but if only the EFL and FA had the same balls for rule breaking ! *** And yes I know the balls are a different shape before some smart Alec comes along ***
Click to expand...

Have they ‘shown balls’ then?

The 35 points would not have seen them relegated in any of the three seasons covered by the enquiry, and probably won’t this season. They retain the two Premiership titles they won by cheating

Where’s the punishment :shrug:
 


strings

strings

Moving further North...
Feb 19, 2006
9,965
Barnsley
I wonder whether the investigation will take account of other clubs rumored creative ways of of keeping within the salary cap.

I might mull this thought over as I take a Bath.
 




Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
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Apr 5, 2014
23,538
For those who don't follow the Great Egg, Saracens have, for many years, been the subject of much conversation concerning the salary cap.

How they have assembled a team of such immense talent without breaking the rules has been a subject of much wonderment.

I feel sorry their supporters though.
 




CheeseRolls

CheeseRolls

Well-known member
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Jan 27, 2009
5,951
Shoreham Beach
hans kraay fan club said:
Have they ‘shown balls’ then?

The 35 points would not have seen them relegated in any of the three seasons covered by the enquiry, and probably won’t this season. They retain the two Premiership titles they won by cheating

Where’s the punishment :shrug:
Click to expand...

What a ridiculous post. Rugby is the game of gentlemen. Saracens were just indulging in a little sport on the side. Cheating is the reserve of the common folk.
 






Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,538
The sad thing is that, if this is upheld, Exeter will never have full acknowledgement of their incredible rise in the form of two other titles they would have deserved. Their story is incredible. They have never had suspicion in their player dealings.
 






Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,570
As a Saracens fan of many years I am disappointed by this decision. I get that the Premiership must be financially viable but there's also a reason England have reached their first World Cup Final in 12 years and that's because of Saracens RFC.

Saracens had 7 that featured In England's WC Final side: Jamie George, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Owen Farrell, Ben Spencer and the Vunipola brothers. The first 5 of those came through the Saracens academy/youth ranks while Mako and Billy were by no means the finished article when they joined at a young age.

If this decision is upheld then expect the French sides who pay considerably more wages than Saracens to dominate European competition, expect an exodus of players out of the Premiership and - because there are rules about players not playing for England if they don't compete in the domestic league - expect England not to appear in another WC Final for another 12 years.
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,570
lost in london said:
I think I would see the £5.36m fine as a punishment
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Let's get this in perspective. That penalty is 30% of Saracen's annual turnover. That's like Man Utd getting a penalty of £188million.

It seems the RFU are prepared for Saracens to go out of business.
 








B

bobbyc

New member
Aug 9, 2016
76
Pavilionaire said:
As a Saracens fan of many years I am disappointed by this decision. I get that the Premiership must be financially viable but there's also a reason England have reached their first World Cup Final in 12 years and that's because of Saracens RFC.

Saracens had 7 that featured In England's WC Final side: Jamie George, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Owen Farrell, Ben Spencer and the Vunipola brothers. The first 5 of those came through the Saracens academy/youth ranks while Mako and Billy were by no means the finished article when they joined at a young age.

If this decision is upheld then expect the French sides who pay considerably more wages than Saracens to dominate European competition, expect an exodus of players out of the Premiership and - because there are rules about players not playing for England if they don't compete in the domestic league - expect England not to appear in another WC Final for another 12 years.
Click to expand...

So no acknowledgement that you cheated? Classy
 


Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
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Apr 5, 2014
23,538
Pavilionaire said:
As a Saracens fan of many years I am disappointed by this decision. I get that the Premiership must be financially viable but there's also a reason England have reached their first World Cup Final in 12 years and that's because of Saracens RFC.

Saracens had 7 that featured In England's WC Final side: Jamie George, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Owen Farrell, Ben Spencer and the Vunipola brothers. The first 5 of those came through the Saracens academy/youth ranks while Mako and Billy were by no means the finished article when they joined at a young age.

If this decision is upheld then expect the French sides who pay considerably more wages than Saracens to dominate European competition, expect an exodus of players out of the Premiership and - because there are rules about players not playing for England if they don't compete in the domestic league - expect England not to appear in another WC Final for another 12 years.
Click to expand...

You feel it is unfair because of the contribution Sarries have made to rugby development ? They have made a major contribution. But we must remember that others have too.

Maybe the salary cap does need a review to bring it in line. But I don't think any less young players will come through the system.
 


Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,570
bobbyc said:
So no acknowledgement that you cheated? Classy
Click to expand...

Me personally? Look, Saracens are going to appeal the decision, they feel they have grounds, I don't know the detail. What they haven't done is directly pay excessive salaries - the accounts show that. It's whether third party deals are going to be construed as salary by any other name.

If they've done wrong then so be it, but if they are punished that won't change the fact that Europe is not operating on a level playing field. Just look at the Galacticos plying their trade at Toulon: Eben Etzebeth, Mamuka Gorgodze, Sergio Parisse, Rhys Webb, Ben Te'o, Julian Savea, Nehe Milner-Skudder.

And they're current mid-table in the French league!
 




Easy 10

Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
61,751
Location Location
Pavilionaire said:
Me personally? Look, Saracens are going to appeal the decision, they feel they have grounds, I don't know the detail. What they haven't done is directly pay excessive salaries - the accounts show that. It's whether third party deals are going to be construed as salary by any other name.

If they've done wrong then so be it, but if they are punished that won't change the fact that Europe is not operating on a level playing field. Just look at the Galacticos plying their trade at Toulon: Eben Etzebeth, Mamuka Gorgodze, Sergio Parisse, Rhys Webb, Ben Te'o, Julian Savea, Nehe Milner-Skudder.

And they're current mid-table in the French league!
Click to expand...

Saracens assembled a superior squad through engineering crafty 3rd party payments to players, failed to tell the governing body because of an "administrative error" (chinny reckon), and have been caught bang to rights. Its not dissimilar to what Cheaterfield were up to when they were bunging extra cash to players in brown paper envelopes on the sly, without including it in their Accounts.

If the game is not a level playing field, that still does not give licence to clubs cheating their way to the top.
 


hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,295
Chandlers Ford
Pavilionaire said:
As a Saracens fan of many years I am disappointed by this decision. I get that the Premiership must be financially viable but there's also a reason England have reached their first World Cup Final in 12 years and that's because of Saracens RFC.

Saracens had 7 that featured In England's WC Final side: Jamie George, Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Owen Farrell, Ben Spencer and the Vunipola brothers. The first 5 of those came through the Saracens academy/youth ranks while Mako and Billy were by no means the finished article when they joined at a young age.

If this decision is upheld then expect the French sides who pay considerably more wages than Saracens to dominate European competition, expect an exodus of players out of the Premiership and - because there are rules about players not playing for England if they don't compete in the domestic league - expect England not to appear in another WC Final for another 12 years.
Click to expand...

If Saracens' success is based on youth development / academy, then surely that makes it even MORE ludicrous that they've felt the need to overspend salary-wise, to attract players from elsewhere?
 


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