[Football] This is utterly ridiculous

nickjhs · Nov 5, 2019

I'm sorry, I know the rule states A player is in an offside position if any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent. But FFS this is beyond ridiculous. I have always wanted VAR, but not when it is being used like this. What is happening here are the rules are being applied with a degree of accuracy the writers of the rules could have never imagined possible. Offside was not not introduced to prevent a players underarm being in front of another's players knee. VAR is taking the rules out of the context they were designed for

dazzer6666 · Nov 5, 2019

Yep, applying too much precision to something that needs a margin. There have been studies already that show it’s impossible to pinpoint the exact position of the ‘offside’ player as the ball is played because the player can move a certain distance whilst the ball is in contact with the players foot........

Using the above example, I think the ‘offside’ line needs to be thicker (equating to maybe a foot/18 inches) and unless the player has something ahead of that then it’s not deemed ‘clear and obvious’ so not called offside.

The Optimist · Nov 5, 2019

nickjhs said:
I'm sorry, I know the rule states A player is in an offside position if any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent. But FFS this is beyond ridiculous. I have always wanted VAR, but not when it is being used like this. What is happening here are the rules are being applied with a degree of accuracy the writers of the rules could have never imagined possible. Offside was not not introduced to prevent a players underarm being in front of another's players knee. VAR is taking the rules out of the context they were designed for

View attachment 116875

This one was flagged as offside by the lino, are you saying that VAR should have overturned the decision and awarded the goal?

sebtucknott · Nov 5, 2019

dazzer6666 said:
Yep, applying too much precision to something that needs a margin. There have been studies already that show it’s impossible to pinpoint the exact position of the ‘offside’ player as the ball is played because the player can move a certain distance whilst the ball is in contact with the players foot........

Using the above example, I think the ‘offside’ line needs to be thicker (equating to maybe a foot/18 inches) and unless the player has something ahead of that then it’s not deemed ‘clear and obvious’ so not called offside.

There should also be a factor for video frames. I think they’re using normal TV footage which will probably be 60 frames per second, possibly 120.
I’d imagine most players can run a 11-12sec 100m which is about 9m/sec so on that logic a player could move minimum of 7.5cm in a frame.
How can they be sure the frame they pick is exactly the one the player kicked the ball.

Worried Man Blues · Nov 5, 2019

If you have the technology you have to be exact, if you start having margins where does that end up. The answer is stay onside.

Green Cross Code Man · Nov 5, 2019

The Optimist said:
This one was flagged as offside by the lino, are you saying that VAR should have overturned the decision and awarded the goal?

Of course. If var is in operation then it has to be utilised. Otherwise why check if the lino has flagged, simply go with his decision without question.

Weststander · Nov 5, 2019

Yep, saw that on MOTD. Surprised that the commentator then studio people didn’t make a thing of it. A goal in anyone’s book.

dazzer6666 · Nov 5, 2019

The Optimist said:
This one was flagged as offside by the lino, are you saying that VAR should have overturned the decision and awarded the goal?

Not a 'clear and obvious' error by the lino, so stay with the onfield decision perhaps? Basically the 'umpires call' equivalent in cricket

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Stumpy Tim · Nov 5, 2019

Worried Man Blues said:
If you have the technology you have to be exact, if you start having margins where does that end up. The answer is stay onside.

Works with cricket and umpires call.

Personally I would say that it should stay with the lino´s call unless VAR shows it to be wrong with the eye´s view (give VAR 5 seconds to change the decision if obvious) - forget these stupid lines

martin tyler · Nov 5, 2019

I thought linesmen were not meant to give offside for really marginal decisions like this? I mean he is technically right although Firmino has not gained any advantage here as you can’t score with your arm.

Stat Brother · Nov 5, 2019

If it carries on like this (which it won't) we might see the game changing.

Liverpool fella still would have scored if BOTH Villa defenders were playing him fully onside.
He didn't need to be in a position that warranted any doubt.

Kalimantan Gull · Nov 5, 2019

This would be the easiest part of VAR to sort out.

Introduce 'Assistant Referees call'. If the assistant referee keeps his flag down and any part of the attackers and defenders bodies overlap, regardless of who is in front, he is onside. If the flag goes up, the attacker has to be behind the defender as normal, or he is offside.

Simples

Someone please send this to the FA

Billy the Fish · Nov 5, 2019

Worried Man Blues said:
If you have the technology you have to be exact, if you start having margins where does that end up. The answer is stay onside.

As Dazzer has said above, I also don't believe the technology is accurate.
The idiots using it have literally just made up the armpit rule. How can you even tell where his armpit begins under his baggy shirt? They're making judgements based on millimeter accuracy but guessing the parameters that it's based on.

Worried Man Blues · Nov 5, 2019

Offsides should be electronically linked to the pacemaker thing on their backs, electronic and immediate, could also give the offender a sharp shock just to let him know!

mikeyjh · Nov 5, 2019

Worried Man Blues said:
If you have the technology you have to be exact, if you start having margins where does that end up. The answer is stay onside.

There's the problem though, they're treating the offsides as exact, which they're clearly not. Until you have a sensor in the ball to know precisely when it has been played, cameras that move to keep in line with the player most likely to receive the ball and therefore be able to accurately show the armpit line and then sensors on each player to show where his armpit is then it's not exact. Problem right now is that we draw a couple of lines across the pitch timed by someone guessing when the ball has been played and fans assume that as 'exact'.

Worried Man Blues · Nov 5, 2019

mikeyjh said:
There's the problem though, they're treating the offsides as exact, which they're clearly not. Until you have a sensor in the ball to know precisely when it has been played, cameras that move to keep in line with the player most likely to receive the ball and therefore be able to accurately show the armpit line and then sensors on each player to show where his armpit is then it's not exact. Problem right now is that we draw a couple of lines across the pitch timed by someone guessing when the ball has been played and fans assume that as 'exact'.

Don't get so close to offside to be caught, learn the lessons.

DavidinSouthampton · Nov 5, 2019

Why not just ditch the offside rule?

darkwolf666 · Nov 5, 2019

Worried Man Blues said:
If you have the technology you have to be exact, if you start having margins where does that end up. The answer is stay onside.

Or go back to the referees assistant, unless a “clear and obvious error” is made... not analyse every goal to see if it can be disallowed!

The Optimist · Nov 5, 2019

Green Cross Code Man said:
Of course. If var is in operation then it has to be utilised. Otherwise why check if the lino has flagged, simply go with his decision without question.

The linesman gave offside. VAR reviewed and found the linesman to be marginally correct. The OP was saying that the tightness makes calling it offside ridiculous, so therefore I was asking if the OP would like VAR to overrule the linesman and award a goal even although marginally the linesman was correct.

Worried Man Blues · Nov 5, 2019

darkwolf666 said:
Or go back to the referees assistant, unless a “clear and obvious error” is made... not analyse every goal to see if it can be disallowed!

But clear and obvious changes whether it's for you or against

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[Football] This is utterly ridiculous

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