[Politics] The General Election Thread

Two Professors · Dec 12, 2019

Labour are in a cleft stick of their own making.They rely on the Moslem vote to carry them and favouring them as they do makes them appear anti-semitic.As for Starmer becoming leader,he left a lot of things at the CPS which would probably be front page news-worthy enough to kill off that idea.Much more of a snake-oil salesman than Farage.

Two Professors · Dec 12, 2019

Lever said:
I hope you will soon recognise that crass, shallow comment has no place here.....or anywhere

I bet that's where Di Abbott and Lady Nugget have been hiding.

Lever · Dec 12, 2019

Two Professors said:
I bet that's where Di Abbott and Lady Nugget have been hiding.

Your vacuous little comment is noted.

Is it PotG? · Dec 12, 2019

Just been to plant my 'X', reassuring that the rain doesn't seem to have deterred the wrinklies at my local.

The Clamp · Dec 12, 2019

Well, my vote is cast. Now I just sit back and wait for my team to win, yeah?
Was even offered tea and biscuits at the Parish so whatever the outcome, I’m winning.

BenGarfield · Dec 12, 2019

Guinness Boy said:
And yet your version of it hasn’t won an election since the 70s and won’t today. The most socialist Labour leader in recent years can’t beat a fat eejit who hides in fridges, dodges debate, can’t look at the results of his social policies on a phone, lies constantly and is about to deliver five years of neoliberalism on steroids.

Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course, your right.I know, wouldn`t be a good idea to ditch this socialist malarkey and just give people just a "tinge" of socialism and form a new "middling" party or some such name - maybe "independent group" or "liberal democrat". It would be free of all these nasty lefty Trots and would be bound to attract zillions of votes. What do you think?

narly101 · Dec 12, 2019

I wonder if we can hope for a Labour and Lib Dem coalition?

Is it PotG? · Dec 12, 2019

narly101 said:
I wonder if we can hope for a Labour and Lib Dem coalition?

Damn, Kenco from the nostrils moment.

:lolol:

BenGarfield · Dec 12, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Yes, that sums it up perfectly.

My middle brother calls that 'poppycock'. He's a sort of angry version of jolly red giant

The idea that people who won't vote for Corbyn are stupid, and the fact we will have a Boris spaff-fest, is the fault of the stupid electrorate is....so....Victorian.

How many times do I have to tell a hard lefter (sorry, ordinary working socialist) that in any election you have to convince the skeptic as well as the devotee, to get the votes to win?

How many times has this to be reiterated before the hard lefter gets it into his hoity toity head that if the skeptics are not convinced it means the policies, or the presentation, or the cut of the leader's jib, or all three are to blame for electoral failure?

How many times (etc etc ... ) will they accept it is never the fault of the electorate when the vote is lost.

Win, FFS. Aim, shoot and win.

No hard lefter leader has ever come close in our national politics. He/she/they never will. Too much baggage, too much orthodoxy (needed, to be accepted as a True Socialist) that cannot be forsworn. Immutable baggage. To 'be there' as a leader of the hard left (sorry, True Socialism) means you had to get there and, like Corbyn and his life, the act of getting there automatically disqualifies you from becoming PM.

By your definition, so far has the Overton window swung to the right that you would need to include in your definition of hard left leader every post war prime minister up to Thatcher including Attlee, Wilson, |Heath and especially that well known Trot, Harold Macmillan. So in your view once the NHS is privatised would it be "hard left" to propose re-nationalising it?

Westdene Seagull · Dec 12, 2019

narly101 said:
I wonder if we can hope for a Labour and Lib Dem coalition?

Somewhat depends if you believe Jo Swinson. If you do then there's no chance of a coalition. But of course she's a Lib Dem and they have a good history of telling porkies.

WATFORD zero · Dec 12, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Somewhat depends if you believe Jo Swinson. If you do then there's no chance of a coalition. But of course she's a Lib Dem and they have a good history of telling porkies.

Hope you didn't vote for a party with a good history of telling porkies :wink:

beorhthelm · Dec 12, 2019

narly101 said:
I wonder if we can hope for a Labour and Lib Dem coalition?

they'll only offer confidence and supply, anything else would be end of the party.

vegster · Dec 12, 2019

Weststander said:
OECD stat’s show that the average salary in the UK is the same as in Sweden and Finland. From that, someone on average earnings, pays 45% in direct taxes. All Swedes and Finns are simply used to having less cash, to pay for their social system.

I think we all know that the " Average Salary " statistic is an aspiration for the majority of the population rather than an expectation. I've just checked and found that I am about £8k p a shy of that and will never bridge that gap. However, quality of life in Nordic countries seems to be much better than our grubby little existence in the 5th biggest economy in the world.

Rodney Thomas · Dec 12, 2019

Two Professors said:
Labour are in a cleft stick of their own making.They rely on the Moslem vote to carry them and favouring them as they do makes them appear anti-semitic.As for Starmer becoming leader,he left a lot of things at the CPS which would probably be front page news-worthy enough to kill off that idea.Much more of a snake-oil salesman than Farage.

What the **** are you on about. 4.4% of the UK population is Muslim and not all of those are eligible to vote.

A1X · Dec 12, 2019

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vegster · Dec 12, 2019

Westdene Seagull said:
Yes - telecoms

And the evidence ? Anyway, I thought Openreach has long been failing as a company as seen on numerous consumer programmes ? Might I add that Three, O2 Vodaphone etc all carried on charging exorbitant roaming fees if you used your phone across Europe until being forced to stop by the EU ? Additionally, there was this reluctance to remind people that their phone/ line contract was up for renewal and subsequently consumers would often still be "Paying " for a handset they had already fully paid for at the end of the contract ?

So, want to think again on telecoms ?

Edit : PS, If/when we leave the EU, it has already been stated that roaming charges will be instantly re-introduced.

beorhthelm · Dec 12, 2019

vegster said:
And the evidence ? Anyway, I thought Openreach has long been failing as a company as seen on numerous consumer programmes ? Might I add that Three, O2 Vodaphone etc all carried on charging exorbitant roaming fees if you used your phone across Europe until being forced to stop by the EU ? Additionally, there was this reluctance to remind people that their phone/ line contract was up for renewal and subsequently consumers would often still be "Paying " for a handset they had already fully paid for at the end of the contract ?

So, want to think again on telecoms ?

iirc roaming charges were determined by the receiving network, and most across Europe set horrendous rates (also for landlines). Vodafone were one of the first to greatly reduce or scrap roaming fees due to their global reach (terminating with themselves in other countries).
as for phone and line contract, there was no separation until recently, the business model giving cheap phones relied on long running contracts.
Openreach is an mess of an organisation.

Thunder Bolt · Dec 12, 2019

Two Professors said:
Labour are in a cleft stick of their own making.They rely on the Moslem vote to carry them and favouring them as they do makes them appear anti-semitic.As for Starmer becoming leader,he left a lot of things at the CPS which would probably be front page news-worthy enough to kill off that idea.Much more of a snake-oil salesman than Farage.

Really? Pray, enlighten us. I worked at the CPS until I retired.

Guinness Boy · Dec 12, 2019

BenGarfield said:
Of course, your right.I know, wouldn`t be a good idea to ditch this socialist malarkey and just give people just a "tinge" of socialism and form a new "middling" party or some such name - maybe "independent group" or "liberal democrat". It would be free of all these nasty lefty Trots and would be bound to attract zillions of votes. What do you think?

I think you haven't addressed the point being made.

Westdene Seagull · Dec 12, 2019

vegster said:
Anyway, I thought Openreach has long been failing as a company as seen on numerous consumer programmes ?

beorhthelm said:
Openreach is an mess of an organisation.

Having worked very closely with Openreach for over a decade I actually have some sympathy for them. First of all those consumer programmes ( Watchdog are prime culprits here ) are quite happy to air consumer complaints about OR but strangely rarely explain how the system works. Consumers can't buy from OR and as they aren't the customer can't interact with OR when there are issues. They should be complaining to their reselller. There is a direct correlation between customer complaints against OR and the reseller that the customer has used. Talk Talk for example are regularly top of the leader board. It's because some resellers do not interact with OR properly. I'll concede that the OR systems are antiquated and complicated but there is free training available from OR to use them.

OR's biggest challenge comes with provisioning - particularly fibre. Around 25% of projects I've worked on have required OR to get permissions from councils, landlords etc. Councils in particular are awful - I've had projects held up for over 2 years. Throw in that the infrastructure is ridiculously huge and complicated and personally, I think OR actually do a reasonable job and often get tarred with a brush that should be painting the re-sellers instead.

I stand by my claim that the telecoms industry privatisation has, in general, been good for the consumer. I'll reserve judgement on mobile operators as it's not something I've had much behind the scenes experience of, but in reality that part of the industry has never been not privatised anyway.

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[Politics] The General Election Thread

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