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[News] Grenfell Tower tragedy was due to racism in London Fire Brigade says Doreen Lawrence



The Wizard

The Wizard

Well-known member
Jul 2, 2009
18,383
Surely we are getting to or are already at the point where such accusations just take away from those suffering real racism, does this woman really believe that the men and women who risk their lives for the public everyday would have even considered the ethnicity or origin of people trapped in a burning building? It’s an unbelievably offensive accusation.
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RossyG

RossyG

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2014
2,630
The Wizard said:
Surely we are getting to or are already at the point where such accusations just take away from those suffering real racism.
.
Click to expand...

George Orwell said in the late-1940s that the word fascist had lost all meaning other than being someone that the other person has a disagreement with.

Lately Nazi has gone the same way (recall the everyone I disagree with is a Nazi meme?) and racist is getting close to it.
 


Perfidious Albion

Perfidious Albion

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2011
6,035
At the end of my tether
I'll not forget seeing the first tv reports and watching the building totally engulfed in flames made me wonder how anybody could be asked to go in there. But they did.

These brave fire fighters deserve better than to be insulted in this way by ""Baroness" Lawrence
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,490
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Before the Grenfell tragedy, nobody knew the effect that cladding the outside of a tower block would have on a fire. The 'Stay Put' advice is the best advice in any flat, because they are supposed to be built with fire doors, which would stop the flames and smoke from spreading.

The cladding effect was unknown to both the residents and the fire services, so how on earth anyone can blame the firefighters is beyond me.


Fire stations had been closed down whilst Johnson was mayor of London, so therefore that would have had an effect on arrival times to any major fire.
 






B

Bulldog

Well-known member
Sep 25, 2010
749
Thunder Bolt said:
Before the Grenfell tragedy, nobody knew the effect that cladding the outside of a tower block would have on a fire. The 'Stay Put' advice is the best advice in any flat, because they are supposed to be built with fire doors, which would stop the flames and smoke from spreading.

The cladding effect was unknown to both the residents and the fire services, so how on earth anyone can blame the firefighters is beyond me.


Fire stations had been closed down whilst Johnson was mayor of London, so therefore that would have had an effect on arrival times to any major fire.
Click to expand...



Exactly this.
 


D

DFL JCL

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2016
792
I suspect race/racism is a factor in the tragic events at Grenfell. What i am extremely uncomfortable with is the association of that with the fire service who were tending to the emergency on the night. Any statement that insinuates that, or which that inference can be reasonably drawn, to my mind is unacceptable. I do not believe for one second that any of the brave fire fighters, who had to witness those horrific scenes or coordinate the response on the night, modified their behavior due to the race of the poor, innocent victims.
 


Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,575
Pretty pink fairy said:
How about chip on shoulder
Regards
DF
Click to expand...

After her son was murdered by racists ?

Oh, it's you. No shock then.

You would naturally crawl out on a thread like this.
 




Psychobilly freakout

Psychobilly freakout

HellBilly
Feb 23, 2009
23,007
Brighton factually.....
Thunder Bolt said:
Before the Grenfell tragedy, nobody knew the effect that cladding the outside of a tower block would have on a fire. The 'Stay Put' advice is the best advice in any flat, because they are supposed to be built with fire doors, which would stop the flames and smoke from spreading.
The cladding effect was unknown to both the residents and the fire services, so how on earth anyone can blame the firefighters is beyond me.
Click to expand...

The wife is project manager for Camden Council building new blocks and renovating old, the cladding issue was known, and the cladding installed on that property may have been downgraded to save money by the contractors.
The issue of fire doors is a contentious one as fire doors are regularly left and wedged open by tenants, Tenants also sometimes change the front fire doors and also put metal guards in front of the front door.
There is also an issue with waste and rubbish not being moved by tenants, the issues are many and varied. Camden the very next day moved people out of blocks that cladding had been installed and placed them in local hotels while they were checked at a very large cost to the housing budget in Camden, which in turn then has a knock on effect.

I find Doreen Lawrence's comments aimed at people who risk their lives day in, day out, trying to save peoples lives no matter what colour or religion, unjust and unfair.
 




Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,575
Pretty pink fairy said:
whats's that got to do with London Fireman , must try harder :dunce:
regards
DF
Click to expand...

What does she have a chip on her shoulder about ?

I'm not sure she is correct to say what she did. What I an sure is that certain folk will appear on the topic. Two have arrived already.
 




Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
Brighton Lines said:
What does she have a chip on her shoulder about ?

I'm not sure she is correct to say what she did. What I an sure is that certain folk will appear on the topic. Two have arrived already.
Click to expand...
i see, you're the Police officer for the PC gang , spin it how you want, what have London fireman got to do with the murder of her son ?
regards
DF
 




Acker79

Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,864
Brighton
I was told by a fire safety expert that an under-reported factor in the fire were the windows of the flat - they had been replaced and the seal around the new windows was imperfect allowing the flames to get out of the flat and set fire to the cladding.

I think racism, classism and many other -isms affect us in many ways, often unconsciously or in vague and obscure institutional ways. It's easy to dismiss claims of racism being involved if you limit it to the 999 operator or the firefighters themselves making conscious decisions based on absolute knowledge of the ethnic make up of the residents. It's probably easy to dismiss an institutionalised racism/classism because to accept and address it could undermine the world views we're comfortable with.

But I don't think Doreen Lawrence is the first person to first person to bring race into the tragedy, either as a contributing factor or a reaction to it.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rvivors-opening-statements-begin-live-updates
https://www.itv.com/news/london/2019-06-06/grenfell-mp-accuses-council-of-racism-or-snobbery/
http://gal-dem.com/the-classist-racist-disorganisation-at-grenfell-tower-is-disgraceful/
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/op...ism-kills-sometimes-quickly-sometimes-slowly/
 










Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,575
Pretty pink fairy said:
i see, you're the Police officer for the PC gang , spin it how you want, what have London fireman got to do with the murder of her son ?
regards
DF
Click to expand...

My point is quite simple. Well, two actually.

Firstly, I'd be surprised if what she says is correct. Unless proved, I find it hard to believe there would be a racial bias in our emergency services.

Secondly, I knew that this was a thread that you might appear on. And you're here.
 




Hillian1

Hillian1

( . ) ( . )
Jul 15, 2010
15,364
Struggling for breath at the top of the stairs
bn9 bha said:
He's seen something that I'm not seeing ???
Click to expand...

I was merely pointing out that to link the tragedy or at least the extent of the tragedy, to the race of the occupants therein was abhorrent.

But there you go, the perma outraged on here pipe as per usual.
 


Not Andy Naylor

Not Andy Naylor

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2007
8,798
Seven Dials
Once the fire had started to spread - up the outside of the building and thence into the flats through their windows, which was because of the combustible cladding - the usual 'stay put' advice was a death sentence. But that advice was coming from the 999 service, who would not have known the race of the callers, although they could probably guess. But then what was the racial make-up of those answering the calls? Possibly very similar. So no racist element there, I'd suggest.

Where there could be a strong racist element is in the attitude of the local authorities to the fears that residents had expressed (which was largely to dismiss them), and the response since the fire. But this is also bound up with a dismissal of the concerns of poor people, who also often happen to be of a different racial mix to wealthier people. I'm reminded of the aftermath of the hurricane in New Orleans, when George W Bush was condemned for not caring about black people. The truth was that he didn't care about poor people. It looks the same and has the same results but is actually different..
 


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