[Misc] US Diplomat Wife Fatal Car Crash

Hastings gull · Oct 7, 2019

Lower West Stander said:
But the US are doing what they want aren’t they?

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First of all we don't know whether they will release her or not, to be fair, but one suspects not. The principle is one of diplomatic immunity, and we need to tread very carefully if we want to change the rules, as it could have grave consequences for our own reps in lands where the rule of law is, shall we say, not as it should be. Also, did we not refuse to extradite a computer hacker, whom the Americans wanted, and I imagine there will have been other such cases. Of course it is infuriating that she will presumably get away with it, however.

Kalimantan Gull · Oct 7, 2019

Heard on radio 5 that there was a case last year in the states where a georgian diplomat caused fatalities in a road accident when drunk driving. The US requested diplomatic immunity to be waived and Georgia agreed. So there is clear precedent here.

Apparently UK have done the same on occasion although keep the cases secret. Opinion was that the US are likely to agree to our request, although whether we can force her to return is another issue

Hastings gull · Oct 7, 2019

Kalimantan Gull said:
Heard on radio 5 that there was a case last year in the states where a georgian diplomat caused fatalities in a road accident when drunk driving. The US requested diplomatic immunity to be waived and Georgia agreed. So there is clear precedent here.

Apparently UK have done the same on occasion although keep the cases secret. Opinion was that the US are likely to agree to our request, although whether we can force her to return is another issue

Fascinating. if they waive her immunity, then presumably we seek extradition. I don't know the ins and outs of this, but it might be that she will have to come back and face the music -and the courts.

Springal · Oct 7, 2019

Hastings gull said:
Fascinating. if they waive her immunity, then presumably we seek extradition. I don't know the ins and outs of this, but it might be that she will have to come back and face the music -and the courts.

Given Brexit round the corner can’t see us upsetting the Yanks any time soon

Kalimantan Gull · Oct 7, 2019

Hastings gull said:
Fascinating. if they waive her immunity, then presumably we seek extradition. I don't know the ins and outs of this, but it might be that she will have to come back and face the music -and the courts.

Possibly we will be allowed to question her over there and if there is a case to answer she might be tried in absentia and possibly allowed to serve sentence in the us

I don't know what the courts would normally decide in a case like this, presuming not drunk or speeding, but made a driving mistake with fatal consequences. Is a custodial sentence certain here?

Thunder Bolt · Oct 7, 2019

Kalimantan Gull said:
Possibly we will be allowed to question her over there and if there is a case to answer she might be tried in absentia and possibly allowed to serve sentence in the us

I don't know what the courts would normally decide in a case like this, presuming not drunk or speeding, but made a driving mistake with fatal consequences. Is a custodial sentence certain here?

Harry's parents are acting with great dignity. They were on the news saying they would ask for a suspended sentence, as anyone could have an accident.
They just want her to own up instead of running away.

Pavilionaire · Oct 7, 2019

If there really was a "Special Relationship" between the UK and the USA then there wouldn't be any question the woman would be returned to the UK to face justice.

The fact she was spirited out of the country, and that she already hasn't seen sent back now the issue is in the global media, tells me the "Special Relationship" is baseless and meaningless.

If this diplomat had been French or German I can't help thinking the outcome might have been different.

teammelli · Oct 7, 2019

Hastings gull said:
Don't be so silly. She did something stupid on the roads, and I am certain that it was not intended. Whether she should then come back to face justice, well, that is another argument.

Sorry, if she had stayed would she have been treated the same by popular opinion, the media, and the legal system if she was a poor black man who was unemployed? What if it was from a marginalized, minority British community, like a poor Bangladeshi on public assistance or a poor African migrant? Especially one with a prior “record” of a driving infraction?

Would you have been so immediately forgiving, going so far as to accept her supposed defense before even the facts have come out? She hasn’t even made a statement yet and you’re already voicing and then self-accepting excuses she hasn’t even made! Amazing stuff this.

Rich, powerful people do whatever they want in the world. Their fines, sentences, punishments are all jokes. They live in a different world, by a different standard.

Are you asleep out of circumstance? Or is your alarm trying to wake you, but you keep hitting snooze?

Gazwag · Oct 10, 2019

A woman at the centre of a row over diplomatic immunity will not return to the UK, according to briefing notes held by US President Donald Trump.

Anne Sacoolas is suspected of being involved in a car crash that killed British motorcyclist Harry Dunn, who died in Northamptonshire on 27 August.

Mrs Sacoolas later left the UK to return home to the US, after telling local police she had no such plans.

The note was photographed as Mr Trump addressed reporters at the White House.

It reads: "(If raised) Note, as Secretary Pompeo told Foreign Secretary Raab, that the spouse of the US government employee will not return to the United Kingdom."

Mr Dunn's mother Charlotte Charles said the US's apparent approach was "beyond any realm of human thinking".

Speaking at the press briefing on Wednesday evening - after his conversation with the prime minister - Mr Trump said: "The woman was driving on the wrong side of the road, and that can happen.

"You know, those are the opposite roads, that happens. I won't say it ever happened to me, but it did.

"So a young man was killed, the person that was driving the automobile has diplomatic immunity, we're going to speak to her very shortly and see if we can do something where they meet."

Pavilionaire · Oct 10, 2019

Kalimantan Gull said:
Heard on radio 5 that there was a case last year in the states where a georgian diplomat caused fatalities in a road accident when drunk driving. The US requested diplomatic immunity to be waived and Georgia agreed. So there is clear precedent here.

Apparently UK have done the same on occasion although keep the cases secret. Opinion was that the US are likely to agree to our request, although whether we can force her to return is another issue

The message to US diplomats is clear - kill people by all means, but make sure you're not intoxicated.

blue-shifted · Oct 10, 2019

This Sacoolis woman knows full well the media furore will die down in a day or two. Her life will get back to normal in a few days

Trump and the US diplomatic people have never and will never give their people up, whatever they do. They'll expect extradition the other way round though

Raab and this pitiful government, as has been said, will meekly back down because we have less leverage and standing in the world than we have had since about 1450

Sorry to a normal family that is trying to grieve but has found their lives catapulted into a geopolitical storm

beorhthelm · Oct 10, 2019

i'd suggest the publicity worked against the victim in this case, its easier for the US to quietly send someone back than in glare of media storm.

nicko31 · Oct 10, 2019

Today is a reminder of how the US works, they look after themselves. Something for us all to ponder, there is no special relationship. Its a myth...

Creaky · Oct 10, 2019

If I were the parents in this case then I think I would take up a suggestion I heard on the radio.

Start a civil case in the US against the driver.

Palacefinder General · Oct 10, 2019

blue-shifted said:
This Sacoolis woman knows full well the media furore will die down in a day or two. Her life will get back to normal in a few days

Mentally her life will never be the same and we haven’t heard the last of this story by a long shot.

Palacefinder General · Oct 10, 2019

Creaky said:
If I were the parents in this case then I think I would take up a suggestion I heard on the radio.

Start a civil case in the US against the driver.

They said days ago they were prepared to take it over to the States, hopefully with significant crowd funding financial support behind them.

dejavuatbtn · Oct 10, 2019

Gazwag said:
Speaking at the press briefing on Wednesday evening - after his conversation with the prime minister - Mr Trump said: "The woman was driving on the wrong side of the road, and that can happen.

"You know, those are the opposite roads, that happens. I won't say it ever happened to me, but it did.

"So a young man was killed, the person that was driving the automobile has diplomatic immunity, we're going to speak to her very shortly and see if we can do something where they meet."

Is he going to kill her?

borat · Oct 10, 2019

The thread title might need to be changed. If the below is correct and her partner was not a diplomat she would not be eligible for immunity.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/arch...acoolas-is-not-and-has-never-been-a-diplomat/

Hampster Gull · Oct 10, 2019

nicko31 said:
Today is a reminder of how the US works, they look after themselves. Something for us all to ponder, there is no special relationship. Its a myth...

Its British desperation to think we’re best mates with the strongest boy in school

maltaseagull · Oct 10, 2019

Stephen Seagull said:
Diplomatic immunity should never cover any major crime

Neither should it apply to the wife of a security officer.
In this case Diplomatic Immunity should mean what it says.
Even though I don't think there is any valid reason for it.(Immunity that is)

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