[Help] Southern Water - Metered Bill / Leak, advice please

SollysLeftFoot · Sep 5, 2019

Leegull said:
My main gripe, surely if they have known since November 2018 via my metre that usage has increased by that much, then the onus should be on them to contact me and tell me that I may have a problem that needs resolving. It seems like pure profiteering on their part to leave it 10 months and then just send me a bill and tell me that it will stand. Hopefully it doesn't come to that but forewarned is forearmed.

Why is the onus on them? They don't have people simply watching people's bills/water usage permanently. I worked within Anglian Water's billing department for a year, we certainly didn't check people's usages until they contacted us; then we would adjust the bills after investigating usage/leakages.

Additionally, how is it profiteering for 10 months when you're billed retrospectively. They haven't received payment for that period yet, hence the bill and increase in payments as per the increase in consumption. Water companies will have a leakage allowance, IIRC, it's regulation to as per OFWAT.

I think the issue here is that you're not aware as to how you're billed and how it all works.

studio150 · Sep 5, 2019

Leegull said:
Once resolved I may just end up like your nutty neighbour, especially if I’ve been stung for a grand, which has literally just been flushed down the drains...

You've said that you are checking your insurance, it is worth noting that many household policies now cover loss of metered water, my policy as an example has a limit of £2,000. So if SW do end up making you pay, your insurance may well be an avenue that will assist you as well as the normal repair

Triggaaar · Sep 5, 2019

Leegull said:
Thanks for that Triggaaar, no beating around the push with that.

Mmm, not necessarily that useful, but I can't see a thread about them and not say anything.

Not a question to you specially but to anyone generally. How do these water meters work?

Is it like your Gas and Electricity, i.e all estimated until they send a person around to physically read the things.
Or are they linked to SW so they can always see what I am using at all times. I’ve never been asked to give them a reading.

No it won't be linked to them, but it will often be outside your property, so they can come and read it any time without you knowing.

If the latter then surely the responsibility is on them to contact their customer directly if they see usage increase by more than 400% and not to just keep ticking up the pound notes for 9 months to a completely unaware customer...

I'm not sure there is a simple answer, and imagine you'll need to negotiate (and contact ofwat if they've not been fair). Although I'm sure this has happened with other customers, so perhaps there is an accepted solution.

Did you make a typo in your opening post? You said "It shows that our water usage has increased by more than 400% each day, we are now using c400 litres per day as opposed to 280 litres per day". That would be less than a 100% increase.

Leegull · Sep 5, 2019

SollysLeftFoot said:
Why is the onus on them? They don't have people simply watching people's bills/water usage permanently. I worked within Anglian Water's billing department for a year, we certainly didn't check people's usages until they contacted us; then we would adjust the bills after investigating usage/leakages.

Additionally, how is it profiteering for 10 months when you're billed retrospectively. They haven't received payment for that period yet, hence the bill and increase in payments as per the increase in consumption. Water companies will have a leakage allowance, IIRC, it's regulation to as per OFWAT.

I think the issue here is that you're not aware as to how you're billed and how it all works.

You’re exactly right. I’m not aware of how I’m billed and how it works, which is why I was requesting advice from people that may be aware.

My question was, is the water meter linked to them and if so can they see that my usage has increased by more than 400% daily or do they simply send a man around once or twice a year to read your meter? I’ve no idea but if it was the former then it’s reasonable to think that they could call me or email me to advise that I may have a problem that needs resolving. That would surely be profiteering but if the latter then that’s not the case and I’m just very unlucky.

In fairness to you though, I didn’t query the meter reading bit until later in the thread and you probably didn’t get that far after reading my initial waffle.

If you used to work for a water company then your advice is exactly the advice that I was after....

Leegull · Sep 5, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Mmm, not necessarily that useful, but I can't see a thread about them and not say anything.
No it won't be linked to them, but it will often be outside your property, so they can come and read it any time without you knowing.

I'm not sure there is a simple answer, and imagine you'll need to negotiate (and contact ofwat if they've not been fair). Although I'm sure this has happened with other customers, so perhaps there is an accepted solution.

Did you make a typo in your opening post? You said "It shows that our water usage has increased by more than 400% each day, we are now using c400 litres per day as opposed to 280 litres per day". That would be less than a 100% increase.

Yes definite typo. My bill now says that I’m using 1400 litres of water per day against an historic 280 litres per day.

Triggaaar · Sep 5, 2019

Leegull said:
Yes definite typo. My bill now says that I’m using 1400 litres of water per day against an historic 280 litres per day.

Ah. I thought the c was for circa.

Like I said, I'm sure others have had this issue. I'm not sure where you can find out the best results customers have had (other than Ofwat).

Diablo · Sep 5, 2019

Leegull said:
Yes definite typo. My bill now says that I’m using 1400 litres of water per day against an historic 280 litres per day.

crikey that`s one hell of a leak more than a cubic meter of water.......No sign anywhere ? I believe if you have not had leak before they may give you leak allowance.

No help to you now but having had leak before I always check meter at least monthly.

Leegull · Sep 5, 2019

Diablo said:
crikey that`s one hell of a leak more than a cubic meter of water.......No sign anywhere ? I believe if you have not had leak before they may give you leak allowance.

No help to you now but having had leak before I always check meter at least monthly.

It’s a very big number isn’t it. Quite surprised that they’re not going to send an engineer until a week tomorrow, would have thought that it would have been more of a priority given the volume of water being wasted.

Given what I now know thanks to this thread, once resolved I’ll be checking the meter at least monthly. Never had a leak before and 14 years with SW issue free, so hopefully we’ll get a leak allowance from them. I’ve got a week now to line up a decent plumber ready for the inevitable finding that it’s my problem...

Paul Reids Sock · Sep 5, 2019

I used to work for Thames and we had a lot of these cases to deal with. I have been away for 4 years now and looking on their site and other companies it appears they have changed how they deal with Customer Side Leaks. Back in my time you would often get either full or partial payment toward the repairing of the pipe on your side. This was due to incentives from OfWat for them to save water. We got a lot of grief for not fixing it free of charge. Looks like now, however, no companies are offering this.

Nearly all water companies will now give you an allowance once you have had the pipe repaired but you will have to claim it rather than them sort it for you proactively.

I believe that it is their obligation to identify the location of the leak and prove that it isn't their responsibility, after that I would try and organise a site visit between one of their recommended plumbers and a technician. At Thames if you used a recommended plumber then you wouldn't need any further checks however if you didn't and the repair wasn't up to standard then you would need to get it done again. This could lead to needing to keep any trenches open for them to check and then get the plumber back to fill them in.

Another key thing to remember is that you don't own up until the Outside Stop Valve if that is off your property boundary. You only own up to that boundary line

Also - check your meter, if it is one that automatically feeds the info back to SW then I would request an explanation of why they haven't told you before, if it is one that has to be manually read then the emphasis will have been on you to be checking it.

Some further info on here regarding the OfWat view on it. They still mention free repairs so if you can find some companies that offer it then I would complain to SW that you are being penalised because of nothing more than location. An email to the CEO will sometimes do the trick...

Shropshire Seagull · Sep 5, 2019

Before the introduction of water meters the household's responsibility started from the stop-cock in the street [every house should have one].
With the installation of a meter, I'm pretty sure the household is still responsible from the street stop-cock, not the meter. Obviously meters are installed in different places [all outside the property] so the pipework between street stop-cock and meter will vary from installation to installation - but the responsibility is unlikely to start from the meter. Key difference here is that if the leak is happening between street stop-cock and meter, the meter won't show it. But if the waterboard identify the leak, they'll be billing you to fix it.

With regards to meter readings, probably varies from board to board, but up here with Seven Trent Water annually is the norm, so if your high usage [leak] was notified within 10 months, seems in order to me.

If they offer any kind of financial gesture, I'd consider that as goodwill ... don't think they are legally or morally obliged to [but happy to be corrected].

Gary Hart's Stalker · Sep 5, 2019

I've had this. The leak was underground in our garden and had resulted in a rather large bill. They have a leak allowance policy which you should be able to use to claim a refund. They put the large bill on hold for 6 or 12 months (sorry, can't remember exactly). Then they use your average meter reading for x months before the leak and compare against your average meter reading for x months after you've fixed the leak and reissue you an adjusted bill. Unfortunately I wasn't a direct debit payer back then, so not sure how they would handle the increase in your monthly direct debit.

I do remember it being a bit of a battle though. It seems their front line staff either don't know about this policy or do their best to deflect you. But they still seem to offer it, so pursue it. https://www.southernwater.co.uk/media/default/PDFs/retailer-leak-allowance.pdf

Good luck.

Mr Bridger · Sep 5, 2019

Leegull said:
Southern Water have said that they will locate the leak. Given the size of the bill they think it’s a large leak and will be easy to trace.. they’ll then advise whether it’s my problem or theirs... checking home insurance as we speak!

If it’s over the boundary or on your land then it’s your problem, or after the meter box. Get them to check the exit side of the meter box thou which is still their responsibility.
If unsure or not happy mention to them that you’ll contact OFWAT and they should soon back down.
Water companies answer to OFWAT, and are in a so called league table so the more complaints they receive the worse they perform and if they are at the bottom of that league table then they have to reduce the bills they charge you. Likewise if they perform well and at the top they can increase the bills.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 5, 2019

Funnily enough SEWater rang me this afternoon, regarding a leak allowance. They are coming to do another reading now the loo is repaired, to see what our average usage is.

AZ Gull · Sep 5, 2019

Is it typical in Britain that you only get a water meter statement every 6 months?

Over here, I get a monthly bill/statement.

Springal · Sep 5, 2019

AZ Gull said:
Is it typical in Britain that you only get a water meter statement every 6 months?

Over here, I get a monthly bill/statement.

Yes. Possibly because of the metering.

Gas / Electric with most are monthly and you can give your own readings whenever you want for accurate billing

AZ Gull · Sep 5, 2019

Springal said:
Yes. Possibly because of the metering.

Gas / Electric with most are monthly and you can give your own readings whenever you want for accurate billing

My water bill is metered and I get a monthly statement.

Springal · Sep 5, 2019

AZ Gull said:
My water bill is metered and I get a monthly statement.

How do the readings get reported? Over here someone manually has to lift the drain cover in the street and take it. And really water usage should be fairly consistent through the year so no requirement to read monthly

AZ Gull · Sep 5, 2019

Springal said:
How do the readings get reported? Over here someone manually has to lift the drain cover in the street and take it. And really water usage should be fairly consistent through the year so no requirement to read monthly

I honestly don't know how the readings get reported - presumably manually at the moment. However, there is now technology to fully automate that process (note - I live in Chandler, not Tempe, but presumably this type of technology would get rolled out by other AZ cities/areas if it proves succesful) - Tempe Gets WaterSmart with New Automated Metering System

There can be very significant variations in water usage from winter to summer over here due to sprinkler systems.

Springal · Sep 5, 2019

AZ Gull said:
I honestly don't know how the readings get reported - presumably manually at the moment. However, there is now technology to fully automate that process (note - I live in Chandler, not Tempe, but presumably this type of technology would get rolled out by other AZ cities/areas if it proves succesful) - Tempe Gets WaterSmart with New Automated Metering System

There can be very significant variations in water usage from winter to summer over here due to sprinkler systems.

Yeah I was going to say the US water consumption must vary a lot in places with pools, sprinklers etc.

The UK have been looking at water smart metering and things like leak detection but the problem is getting 3G mobile signal 'underground'. Smart metering for Gas/Electric is already in place because typically the meters are only in cupboards in your house

Billy in Bristol · Sep 5, 2019

Throw in the above with a rented accommodation and there is a free way argument I don't need. Landlord informed that a leak needed repair and my name on the bill.

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