[Finance] Missing tax return - how far back to HMRC check?

Triggaaar · Aug 31, 2019

I do self assessment tax returns. My online account says that I didn't complete a return some years ago. That's not correct, but I don't have a copy of the return, as it was done on paper back then and it's a long time ago. I'm just wondering if at some point they're going to hassle me for a missing return, which I'm sure I submitted.

So my question is, how many years back can they go for a missing return?

Thanks

Icy Gull · Aug 31, 2019

4 years but up to 6 if you have been a naughty boy over the last four years with dodgy returns?

Just from a quick google

Brian Parsons · Aug 31, 2019

It used to be 7yrs for them but only 5yrs for us, but that may have changed.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

Triggaaar · Aug 31, 2019

Icy Gull said:
4 years but up to 6 if you have been a naughty boy over the last four years with dodgy returns?

Just from a quick google

That's not what I've seen. I've read that if 'someone has been visibly careless (submitting tax returns with mistakes), HMRC can journey back 6 years'. Well if they claim I didn't file a tax return at all, that would certainly be visibly careless.

But also I've read 'For (alleged) deliberate tax avoidance, they can delve into 20 years’ worth of tax returns to find what they’re looking for'. I'm sure I did file a return, but if I'm wondering if they could claim I deliberately didn't, so as to avoid tax. That wouldn't make sense to me, as if you were guilty of 'deliberate tax avoidance' I'd think you would file a return, but you'd lie in it. But then if someone didn't file a return at all, I can at least see an argument against them (even though I disagree).

So I'm wondering if one of our finance experts here might know a simple answer for when HMRC claim a return wasn't filed at all.

Triggaaar · Aug 31, 2019

Further reading suggests it's 20 years, which is irritating, as I don't even have all my documents any more.

Icy Gull · Aug 31, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Further reading suggests it's 20 years, which is irritating, as I don't even have all my documents any more.

Only if they think you have been a very naughty boy. You might need a decent lawyer in these circumstances

NooBHA · Aug 31, 2019

2014/15 is the last "in date" year at the moment. However, if you have have consistently been required to lodge tax returns they will continue to chase that Return if it has not been lodged no matter how far back it is. What I would say is.

There should have been Penalties levied for an outstanding Return. Surprise ther hasn't been any penalties levied already for the missing year.

If they have only recently issued a Return for that year for the first time then you have 90 days to complete it without incurring any Penalty

NooBHA · Aug 31, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Further reading suggests it's 20 years, which is irritating, as I don't even have all my documents any more.

It doesn't sound like it's "Discovery". That's when it's 20 years. It sounds like it's just a missing Return. If that's the case. Use Estimated figures on the Return. Enter into notes box. "Figures are Estimated in the absence of actual records" Then they have your Declaration and it's up to them whether they accept your estimates or seek to challenge them

Triggaaar · Aug 31, 2019

Icy Gull said:
Only if they think you have been a very naughty boy.

I certainly haven't. But they may not agree.

NooBHA said:
It doesn't sound like it's "Discovery". That's when it's 20 years. It sounds like it's just a missing Return.

Here are the online notes for Discovery:

The time limit for making a discovery assessment is not later than 20 years after the end of the tax year to which it relates where the loss of tax is:
* brought about deliberately by the person
* attributable to a failure to notify liability under section 7 of TMA 1970

It would be attributable to failure to notify:

section 7 of TMA 1970
Notice of liability to tax

(1)Every person who is chargeable to income tax for any year of assessment and who has not delivered a return of his profits or gains or his total income for that year in accordance with the provisions of the Income Tax Acts shall, not later than one year after the end of that year of assessment, give notice that he is so chargeable.

Triggaaar · Aug 31, 2019

NooBHA said:
If they have only recently issued a Return for that year for the first time then you have 90 days to complete it without incurring any Penalty

I can't, I no longer have the documents for that year.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 31, 2019

Triggaaar said:
I can't, I no longer have the documents for that year.

So you have lost the form and you don’t have any of the supporting documents either?

Triggaaar · Aug 31, 2019

Herr Tubthumper said:
So you have lost the form and you don’t have any of the supporting documents either?

Basically, yes. It was 11 years ago.

robinsonsgrin · Aug 31, 2019

surely there will be a record of filing payment....

NooBHA · Aug 31, 2019

Triggaaar said:
I certainly haven't. But they may not agree.
Here are the online notes for Discovery:

It would be attributable to failure to notify:

Triggaaar. If you say you did paper Returns and you lodged it. If they had issued it and not got it back you would have been getting computer generated penalties for non submission. If you haven't been then I would say that there is no way they had issued a Return. Alternatively if they had issued a Return and not issued a penalty. I would say that they must have "captured" it as having been received and then failed to process it internally

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 31, 2019

Triggaaar said:
Basically, yes. It was 11 years ago.

Personally, and if you have kept all subsequent years up to date and accurate and there’s nothing suspicious , I wouldn’t worry about it. I think it’s highly unlikely they will question something from 11 years ago unless there’s a reason beyond it simply being missing.

NooBHA · Aug 31, 2019

Triggaaar said:
I can't, I no longer have the documents for that year.

See my other post on using Estimates

Triggaaar · Aug 31, 2019

NooBHA said:
Triggaaar. If you say you did paper Returns and you lodged it.

I can't imagine I didn't. I did paper returns every year (until I started doing them online every year). But online it says the return for that year hasn't been completed.

If they had issued it and not got it back you would have been getting computer generated penalties for non submission. If you haven't been then I would say that there is no way they had issued a Return.

I'm not getting penalties. I can't be sure whether I've ever had a penalty or not, because some years in the past I've had to pay £100 ish for a late return. But I haven't had any penalties for some time (and never more than £100 ish).

Alternatively if they had issued a Return and not issued a penalty. I would say that they must have "captured" it as having been received and then failed to process it internally

I'm assuming it's not been processed properly, but I have no proof of anything.

Thanks for the help.

Triggaaar · Aug 31, 2019

Herr Tubthumper said:
Personally, and if you have kept all subsequent years up to date and accurate and there’s nothing suspicious , I wouldn’t worry about it.

Thanks. I don't earn enough to be suspicious :lol:

Cheshire Cat · Aug 31, 2019

You could always contact HMRC and ask them. It might be their error on the system?

They aren't infallible.

NooBHA · Aug 31, 2019

Triggaaar said:
I can't imagine I didn't. I did paper returns every year (until I started doing them online every year). But online it says the return for that year hasn't been completed.
I'm not getting penalties. I can't be sure whether I've ever had a penalty or not, because some years in the past I've had to pay £100 ish for a late return. But I haven't had any penalties for some time (and never more than £100 ish).

I'm assuming it's not been processed properly, but I have no proof of anything.

Thanks for the help.

Your welcome. Just do another estimated Return to get them off your back.

You will need to do a Manual Return though unless they only issued it recently.

Go to the section for Returns . Then to years and it will give a "date of issue" Good luck

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Finance] Missing tax return - how far back to HMRC check?

Well-known member

Back on the rollercoaster

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Back on the rollercoaster

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

The most curious thing..

Well-known member

Share this page