[Albion] Barber on extra seats

symyjym said:

If there was enough room for 10 rows the pitch would have to go 10 rows deeper. I think the rows would have to be included equally around the stadium. Two or three rows is comfortable but at Loftus Road the fans can touch the players they are so close. We have got a bit more space around the pitch than most standard stadiums but how close to the pitch is reasonable?

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I assume he meant at the back of the stand, rather than at the front. I.e. knocking through the wall at the back and extending into the offices behind or whatever is there. Given how steeply the roof drops I am not sure there would be enough height to add many rows.

Lowering the pitch was done at Man City and Rangers to add two or three extra rows. Each row adds another 650-700 seats. But that would mean lowering the undersoil heating system, sprinkler system and drainage system too, so there would be a big cost to do that. Plus the new seats would be prone to getting wet in poor weather and possibly have poor sight lines. It might adversely impact the sight lines of the existing lower tier seats too. The concourses would be more crowded. Not exactly ideal. I wouldn't rule it out entirely, but I think it's probably not going to happen.

The big screens are looking a bit tired and my distance vision is not as good as when the stadium opened so bigger ones would certainly be a plus for me. If and when they are replaced I suspect they might be moved to be suspended from the roof. This would enable another 30 odd seats to be added to the back of the North and open up some stadium frontage in the south which might enable another couple of boxes to be added. I think it'll be a few years before they are life expired so I don't think this will happen for a few years.

They could add another structure similar to the SE corner to the NE corner for around 100 new seats. If it didn't have a lounge at the back maybe it could have a few more rows, but then where would the concourse be? They might have to build something outside the existing footprint of the stadium, which could be tricky to get planning approval for.

The middle of the west upper had a new TV gantry bolted onto the front a couple of seasons ago. I wonder if they could extend this the entire length of the stand to add a new row of seats at the front and do the same on the east upper to add another 400-500 seats. The compromise here would be the view from the lounges would be slightly less impressive, plus again more crowded concourses.

If they could move the stadium control box near the NW corner (to where I don't know. Suspend it from a roof?) then that might enable the NW corner upper tier to be continued along the back of the north to the big screen. That might add 700-800 more seats. Hugely expensive though so probably not likely. At least in this case there might be room for a concourse behind, rather than making existing concourses more crowded.

Every option I can think of seems costly to me and/or has an element of compromise. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

Uter said:

I assume he meant at the back of the stand, rather than at the front. I.e. knocking through the wall at the back and extending into the offices behind or whatever is there. Given how steeply the roof drops I am not sure there would be enough height to add many rows..

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There are 2 storeys of offices from the back of the top row of the North so it would be possible. (I've been in those offices a few times and you'd definitely get some rows in the space.) Think the impediments are:

They'd lose 2 storeys of offices.
Moving the Police control box somewhere else.
Might impact on Dicks Bar

BNthree said:

There are 2 storeys of offices from the back of the top row of the North so it would be possible. (I've been in those offices a few times and you'd definitely get some rows in the space.) Think the impediments are:

They'd lose 2 storeys of offices.
Moving the Police control box somewhere else.
Might impact on Dicks Bar

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The control box doesn't necessarily have to move, but it does limit the number of extra seats you could add.

If they do put extra seats in the north then it might be linked to whatever they decide to do with the land behind the east stand where the hotel was to be. There's no necessity for the shop, Dick's bar, museum or offices to be within the stadium so if any space was needed in the north for a new or enlarged concourse then it could be that some of those things are moved there to make way.

Uter said:

I assume he meant at the back of the stand, rather than at the front. I.e. knocking through the wall at the back and extending into the offices behind or whatever is there. Given how steeply the roof drops I am not sure there would be enough height to add many rows.

Lowering the pitch was done at Man City and Rangers to add two or three extra rows. Each row adds another 650-700 seats. But that would mean lowering the undersoil heating system, sprinkler system and drainage system too, so there would be a big cost to do that. Plus the new seats would be prone to getting wet in poor weather and possibly have poor sight lines. It might adversely impact the sight lines of the existing lower tier seats too. The concourses would be more crowded. Not exactly ideal. I wouldn't rule it out entirely, but I think it's probably not going to happen.

The big screens are looking a bit tired and my distance vision is not as good as when the stadium opened so bigger ones would certainly be a plus for me. If and when they are replaced I suspect they might be moved to be suspended from the roof. This would enable another 30 odd seats to be added to the back of the North and open up some stadium frontage in the south which might enable another couple of boxes to be added. I think it'll be a few years before they are life expired so I don't think this will happen for a few years.

They could add another structure similar to the SE corner to the NE corner for around 100 new seats. If it didn't have a lounge at the back maybe it could have a few more rows, but then where would the concourse be? They might have to build something outside the existing footprint of the stadium, which could be tricky to get planning approval for.

The middle of the west upper had a new TV gantry bolted onto the front a couple of seasons ago. I wonder if they could extend this the entire length of the stand to add a new row of seats at the front and do the same on the east upper to add another 400-500 seats. The compromise here would be the view from the lounges would be slightly less impressive, plus again more crowded concourses.

If they could move the stadium control box near the NW corner (to where I don't know. Suspend it from a roof?) then that might enable the NW corner upper tier to be continued along the back of the north to the big screen. That might add 700-800 more seats. Hugely expensive though so probably not likely. At least in this case there might be room for a concourse behind, rather than making existing concourses more crowded.

Every option I can think of seems costly to me and/or has an element of compromise. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with.

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Yes indeed. It's interesting going through all the possibilities as a thought experiment. The Live Screens should be hung in a better way and a lot bigger and above the roofs preferably.

If I was leading the project to increase capacity I would look into jacking up the West Stand tubular roof structure, taking the lower sides of the North and South Stand roofs with it to level them up. Then fill in the gap with 8 - 10,000 seats job done.

symyjym said:

Yes indeed. It's interesting going through all the possibilities as a thought experiment. The Live Screens should be hung in a better way and a lot bigger and above the roofs preferably.

If I was leading the project to increase capacity I would look into jacking up the West Stand tubular roof structure, taking the lower sides of the North and South Stand roofs with it to level them up. Then fill in the gap with 8 - 10,000 seats job done.

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Remind me in a couple of months time, as I’ll need someone to decorate my Christmas tree.

Anyone who was around during the build will know that the roof structure simply cannot be changed. All four roofs are anchored against four massive concrete dog heads, which go down about 25 feet under ground. So, please, stop talking about jacking up roofs!

Martin Perry knows the stadium better than anyone - so whatever he comes up with and says is the best / most pragmatic / cost effective solution - then that is good enough for me

Just enough to take total seats to just over 31,000 is my guess

North East corner and the disabled areas in the East Upper wings would seem most likely. I think the could probably add some seats above the disabled areas there.

seagullwedgee said:

Anyone who was around during the build will know that the roof structure simply cannot be changed. All four roofs and anchored against four massive concrete dog heads, which go down about 25 feet under ground. So, please, stop talking about jacking up roofs!

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Are you a structural engineer? Because bigger projects than jacking up structures happen all the time with well thought strategy and modifications.

Dream on.

Wozza said:

And if you thought there was some extra transport capacity magically available, you might ask yourself why it isn't utilised now to save fans parking illegally to utilise park 'n' rides, or hour-long waits to get out of dedicated car parks etc etc.

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Why spend money when you don’t need to?

“The current setup is just on the right side of chaos.”

Once the setup is on the wrong side, it’s time to invest a little more.

seagullwedgee said:

Dream on.

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It's not dreaming it is speculating how they would increase the capacity significantly if they wanted to. Let's call it a thought experiment to help you understand. Now unless you are a structural engineer, who solve what would seem impossible tasks, you are not qualified to judge what can or can't be done so don't make it sound like you are.

Uter said:

I assume he meant at the back of the stand, rather than at the front. I.e. knocking through the wall at the back and extending into the offices behind or whatever is there.

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I did. Based on the doctored architect’s drawings posted on another thread a few weeks ago. The seats would probably be standard+ glassed off from the normal North Stand rabble as they’d be using Dicks at half-time.