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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Wilson's tackle View Post
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    I was taking the piss with my analogy. Taking the piss out of folk who think that using VAR to reach a correct decision is taking all the fun out of the game and they would rather have an instant incorrect decision.
    My God, it took him this long to come up with an excuse. No matter, mods like Guinness will swoon over the idiot anyway.

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    • #72
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arthritic Toe View Post
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      Personally, my beef isn't with the microscopic accuracy. I'd say if we have to have it, lets have it precise. My beef is with the whole idea of VAR and that it just saps the life out of the game. Not knowing whether a goal is a goal until several minutes later just destroys it.
      I'm actually pro-VAR but the disallowed Trossard decision took an age to make. I could see it from where I sat and it was pretty clear on replays, so no idea why it took so long for the goal to be ruled out.
    • #73
      Harry Wilson's Tackle Harry Wilson's tackle's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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      There probably was clear daylight between Burn and the defence wasn't there?
      Not when I saw the reply and the VAR decision. That said, MOTD ran through it so quickly.....and the way they were speaking it was not contestable. But MOTD is backing VAR....to my eye the bodies overlapped, which is why I woke up feeling glum about the goal. I'd like to see the VAR view on screen at the stadium, too. I don'r recall seeing it on Saturday.

      These are small tweaks, though.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Q93v7hGZA
      It's only them that aren't their targets that love the violent and the madmen
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MLijS6Cstk
    • #74
      On the road... Driver8's Avatar
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      Football doesnít need VAR.
    • #75
      Harry Wilson's Tackle Harry Wilson's tackle's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Guinness Boy View Post
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      I get it - you're speaking in the voice of us naughty funsters who'd rather have a bad, quick, human decision to debate in the pub than an accurate to the point of ridiculousness, slow, technology based decision. I'm a Luddite

      But the analogy was poor for the reasons I stated - VAR is the CCTV and not the drink drive limit. CCTV doesn't stop you doing stupid things - it just rachets up the possiblity that you'll get caught.
      Yes, that's right (my point).

      VAR is CCTV? Yes, perhaps. So, you are against CCTV, then?

      Perhaps a better analogy for VAR would be the blood alchohol test.

      Anyway, you know what I mean, and you disagree, so there we are.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Q93v7hGZA
      It's only them that aren't their targets that love the violent and the madmen
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MLijS6Cstk
    • #76
      Harry Wilson's Tackle Harry Wilson's tackle's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Nobby View Post
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      I’m not sure you’re getting this argument at all.
      No one wants a wrong decision. Supporters want a decision which is made quickly and not take 1 minute and 42 seconds to decide as on Saturday.
      People also want consistency.
      If VAR corrects incorrect onsides and offsides then it should correct missed penalty calls and incorrect penalty calls.
      That did not happen at the weekend.

      What happened was that this useful technology, (of which there are still some doubts apparently), was not used in cases which have subsequently been shown to be incorrect decisions. (Eg City penalty vs Spurs).

      If we are going to use this technology, it must be quick and seamless, so that paying customers are not sacrificed to the TV Gods, and it must be used to redress all incorrect decisions not just some of them.

      Otherwise, we have no difference to the non VAR past, when some decisions were correct and some not.
      Yes, yes, I agree with every word! I want VAR to be quick and I want laws changed so VAR informs (some) different decisions to the ones we have seen this season that have caused the most venting. I want VAR used better.

      My ire is directed at folk who object to VAR because they appear to think it can never work, many of whom appear to favour swift incorrect decisions over delayed correct ones, and who cnflate VAR with bad laws.

      I also direct my ire against the clowns who have failed to ensure the laws make sense and the use of VAR is optimal. But I think things will get better with VAR tweaking, and don't see binning of VAR as remotely desirable.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Q93v7hGZA
      It's only them that aren't their targets that love the violent and the madmen
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MLijS6Cstk
    • #77
      Harry Wilson's Tackle Harry Wilson's tackle's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arthritic Toe View Post
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      Personally, my beef isn't with the microscopic accuracy. I'd say if we have to have it, lets have it precise. My beef is with the whole idea of VAR and that it just saps the life out of the game. Not knowing whether a goal is a goal until several minutes later just destroys it.
      If it continues to be several minutes there could well be repercussions. It will have to be faster. Humans are clever, though and solutions will be forthcoming.

      How about this: a 30 second rule. For offsides if VAR can't check the pix in 30 seconds the VAR team should be sacked. For handball and penalties, if it is going to take more than 30 seconds it is clearly a coin toss call, in which case a policy can be made to favour the attacking side (or defending side - that can be discussed). It is better to have a policy to deal with 'too close to call' decisions than rely on the whims of either the VAR team or the ref (the latter either with or without the assistanmce of VAR).

      Anyway as I said before, VAR can no more be uninvented than can genetic tests for heritable diseases. The trajectory is towards more use of technology, not less.
      Last edited by Harry Wilson's tackle; 19-08-2019 at 19:08.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Q93v7hGZA
      It's only them that aren't their targets that love the violent and the madmen
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MLijS6Cstk
    • #78
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pavilionaire View Post
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      I said this at the time that UEFA should have paid a mid-tier European League to trial VAR for a whole season, i.e. tech up the SPL grounds, give each club £5 million to participate then run the whole season and monitor the results.

      I agree that the handball laws are unclear and so an attacker gets penalised for accidental handball in the box but a defender doesn't.

      I felt gutted at Trossard's first goal being chalked off, so I imagine the Citeh fans must feel sick about Laporte's "handball" in extra-time denying them the 3 points and the impact that has on the title race.
      Errr... VAR started being trialled in small European leagues 3 years ago, and has been in big European leagues for 2 years.
    • #79
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      Quote Originally Posted by Springal View Post
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      No-one was saying that after Cardiff away last season !

      Which is what VAR should be for.

      Not 2mm off side
    • #80
      Mod writer Guinness Boy's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Harry Wilson's tackle View Post
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      Yes, that's right (my point).

      VAR is CCTV? Yes, perhaps. So, you are against CCTV, then?
      I wouldn't say for or against. For if it finds a lost child or catches toads that have stuck some poor bloke's business up whilst terrifying him. Against if it is used as a 1984 style catch all to restrict freedom and justify binning off police on the ground. All technology has pros and cons, even the stuff I sell. Progress and change are desireable but, my word, it has to be the RIGHT technology.

      Do I want a computer writing Mozart style symphonies, attempting to paint masterpieces or cooking my wagyu beef? Not on your nelly. Do I find youtube and spotify great for finding music or the internet useful for background on it, telling me when the gallery is open or what wine pairs best within a £15 price range? Absolutely. Science has its place and art has it's place. But, as I said, football is art.

      I guess my biggest beef is what do you expect VAR to achieve. If the answer is "the right result" you've already lost me, You cannot legislate for what effect the stop in momentum cost us on Saturday. Irresepective of THAT decision the wind comes out of your sails, the crowd go silent and their herberts pipe up instead. The whole dimension of the game changes. Butterfly's wings and all that. Last season Trossard's first "goal" either would have stood, leaving probably less than 5% of the away end questioning it, or the flag would already have been up and we'd have accepted it, barely celebrated, and pushed on for the win.

      VAR won't stop Liverpool or City winning the title this season. It won't stop Palace being a one man team coached by someone who looks like a senile lesbian. It won't stop Madrid and Barca being the big two in Spain, Celtic winning Monkey Tennis or England charging towards glorious failure in a semi final. It will not IMPROVE results but it will ruin my day out as a paying punter.

      Anyway, we're not going to agree but if I can get my kids to let me downstairs at HT on Sat I will happily discuss this (or perhaps other stuff) over beer.
      Last edited by Guinness Boy; 19-08-2019 at 19:18.
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