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[Football] The VAR questions/hypothetical situations/peculiarities thread



Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ

Hove / Παρος
Apr 7, 2006
6,522
Hove / Παρος
I was thinking today, as Michael Antonio went down in the box under Dunk's challenge, what would happen if we had immediately bombed down the other end and scored? I'm guessing our goal would be chalked off if it was deemed a pen and play would have restarted with a West Ham penalty!

This seems like a fairly likely situation to unfold in the Premier League in some form sooner rather than later. For example, there could be a bit of tussling in the box during a corner followed by a quick break down the other end by the defending team and a goal - only for VAR to callback play for an infringement during the corner by the defending team and award a penalty. Is there a time limit to how far back in play we can go? Would additional time be added for the "play" that occurred prior to VAR making the call?

I had some other hypothetical questions but they have escaped me so will leave this thread here for now!

Today was gutting watching on the TV and I can only imagine how it felt for those there - VAR certainly much more painful for those in attendance.
 


Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
14,744
Ⓩ-Ⓐ-[emoji713 said:
-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ;9038306]I was thinking today, as Michael Antonio went down in the box under Dunk's challenge, what would happen if we had immediately bombed down the other end and scored? I'm guessing our goal would be chalked off if it was deemed a pen and play would have restarted with a West Ham penalty!

This seems like a fairly likely situation to unfold in the Premier League in some form sooner rather than later. For example, there could be a bit of tussling in the box during a corner followed by a quick break down the other end by the defending team and a goal - only for VAR to callback play for an infringement during the corner by the defending team and award a penalty. Is there a time limit to how far back in play we can go? Would additional time be added for the "play" that occurred prior to VAR making the call?

I had some other hypothetical questions but they have escaped me so will leave this thread here for now!

Today was gutting watching on the TV and I can only imagine how it felt for those there - VAR certainly much more painful for those in attendance.
I don't actually have a problem with wrongs being righted, but it's the amount of time it takes to get there that got to me today.

It seems like VAR is a bit 'work in progress' and just something we'll get used to....

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 


Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Nov 15, 2008
31,764
Brighton
It's similar to the question last week of what would have happened if the Murray 'handball' resulted in us going up the other end and scoring. A ball striking the arm in the build up to a goal is a ruled a handball whether it's intentional or not. So it's not a penalty for blocking a shot, but would it have been one if it led to us scoring?

My understanding is that the ref should 'reset' attacking plays at suitable moments, which gives VAR a point to which their review goes back. So, it would come down to when the ref 'resets' the attack. If he does that after the challenge, when we, for example, cross the halfway line then it would have been ignored. If he doesn't reset it unless an initial attack is repelled, and then a second wave of the attack results in a goal, maybe it would have not been looked at.
 




Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ

Hove / Παρος
Apr 7, 2006
6,522
Hove / Παρος
I don't actually have a problem with wrongs being righted, but it's the amount of time it takes to get there that got to me today.

It seems like VAR is a bit 'work in progress' and just something we'll get used to....

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Yeah, I don't have a problem with it either and even though it was gutting today it was the right decision. But there are some situations where I genuinely don't know the rules, such as what I posted above.
 




jessiejames

Never late in a V8
Jan 20, 2009
2,688
Brighton, United Kingdom
Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ;9038306 said:
I was thinking today, as Michael Antonio went down in the box under Dunk's challenge, what would happen if we had immediately bombed down the other end and scored? I'm guessing our goal would be chalked off if it was deemed a pen and play would have restarted with a West Ham penalty!

This seems like a fairly likely situation to unfold in the Premier League in some form sooner rather than later. For example, there could be a bit of tussling in the box during a corner followed by a quick break down the other end by the defending team and a goal - only for VAR to callback play for an infringement during the corner by the defending team and award a penalty. Is there a time limit to how far back in play we can go? Would additional time be added for the "play" that occurred prior to VAR making the call?

I had some other hypothetical questions but they have escaped me so will leave this thread here for now!

Today was gutting watching on the TV and I can only imagine how it felt for those there - VAR certainly much more painful for those in attendance.

Like the handball against Burnley last season when they either scored or got the penalty, can't quite remember what the outcome was.
 




Guy Fawkes

The voice of treason
Sep 29, 2007
8,187
Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ;9038306 said:
I was thinking today, as Michael Antonio went down in the box under Dunk's challenge, what would happen if we had immediately bombed down the other end and scored? I'm guessing our goal would be chalked off if it was deemed a pen and play would have restarted with a West Ham penalty!

This seems like a fairly likely situation to unfold in the Premier League in some form sooner rather than later. For example, there could be a bit of tussling in the box during a corner followed by a quick break down the other end by the defending team and a goal - only for VAR to callback play for an infringement during the corner by the defending team and award a penalty. Is there a time limit to how far back in play we can go? Would additional time be added for the "play" that occurred prior to VAR making the call?

I had some other hypothetical questions but they have escaped me so will leave this thread here for now!

Today was gutting watching on the TV and I can only imagine how it felt for those there - VAR certainly much more painful for those in attendance.

Maybe i was the only one in the ground that wasn't celebrating the goal (which VAR ruled out) as it looked clear to me that Burn was offside in the build up when the ball was played in, as no one else touched it before he'd run onto it himself and crossed it back in, i knew i was always going to be disallowed

Under the VAR rules we have now, the assistants tend not to flag and allow VAR to check for offsides instead, had there been no VAR, the likelihood is that the assistant would have flagged it offside

Regarding your original hypothetical question, i'm pretty sure i've heard that that has already happened elsewhere and yes the goal would be disallowed and a penalty would have been awarded instead (too slow typing my response and beaten to it by Da Man Clay)
 




KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
19,692
Wolsingham, County Durham
The Man City handball for their disallowed 3rd goal is a stupid rule. Totally accidental but goal ruled out anyway. If the defender had handballed it in that manner, it would NOT be a penalty. A total bollox of a rule that must be scrapped at the earliest opportunity (next season presumably).
 


jessiejames

Never late in a V8
Jan 20, 2009
2,688
Brighton, United Kingdom
Maybe i was the only one in the ground that wasn't celebrating the goal (which VAR ruled out) as it looked clear to me that Burn was offside in the build up when the ball was played in, as no one else touched it before he'd run onto it himself and crossed it back in, i knew i was always going to be disallowed

Under the VAR rules we have now, the assistants tend not to flag and allow VAR to check for offsides instead, had there been no VAR, the likelihood is that the assistant would have flagged it offside

Regarding your original hypothetical question, i'm pretty sure i've heard that that has already happened elsewhere and yes the goal would be disallowed and a penalty would have been awarded instead (too slow typing my response and beaten to it by Da Man Clay)

But the goal was allowed, the linesman did not flag, the West Ham players were ready to restart with a kick-off, it was someone over 100 miles away who made decision to advise the ref that there may have been an offside offence. Up until that moment the goal stood.
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,596
Cumbria
I'm not actually sure that Man City's goal tonight was correctly ruled out anyway. The Law says that it's an offence if a player:

gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
scores in the opponents’ goal
creates a goal-scoring opportunity
scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental


As far as I can see the City player didn't do any of these. He didn't score, and I don't really think it can be said that he 'created a goal-scoring opportunity', as Jesus still had quite a lot to do. So, I'm not sure that Murray's [non] handball would have mattered, if the law was correctly applied?

With the Burnley one last year, their handball was deliberate, so would have been reviewed as 'was it a penalty for Brighton?' first rather than 'was it a penalty for Burnley?' - which would be the same in your scenario. They would make a judgement on the Antonio situation first, before then looking at any later goal.
 




keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,630
The Man City handball for their disallowed 3rd goal is a stupid rule. Totally accidental but goal ruled out anyway. If the defender had handballed it in that manner, it would NOT be a penalty. A total bollox of a rule that must be scrapped at the earliest opportunity (next season presumably).

That's less VAR than the stupid handball rule
 


Guy Fawkes

The voice of treason
Sep 29, 2007
8,187
But the goal was allowed, the linesman did not flag, the West Ham players were ready to restart with a kick-off, it was someone over 100 miles away who made decision to advise the ref that there may have been an offside offence. Up until that moment the goal stood.

Maybe the assistant referees have been told not to flag if it's close and leave it to VAR as, by flagging, it could mean that perfectly legal goals get ruled out as the play or players stop. By checking VAR rather than flagging it, as in our case, then it makes sure that the right decision is given

If there was no VAR, THEN it would have probably been flagged offside by the official because Burn was off as it was played in and he was the one that got on the end of that, if anyone else had collected it instead, then his offside in that phase of play wouldn't have mattered
 






Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,575
Back in Sussex
Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ;9038306 said:
I was thinking today, as Michael Antonio went down in the box under Dunk's challenge, what would happen if we had immediately bombed down the other end and scored? I'm guessing our goal would be chalked off if it was deemed a pen and play would have restarted with a West Ham penalty!

This seems like a fairly likely situation to unfold in the Premier League in some form sooner rather than later. For example, there could be a bit of tussling in the box during a corner followed by a quick break down the other end by the defending team and a goal - only for VAR to callback play for an infringement during the corner by the defending team and award a penalty. Is there a time limit to how far back in play we can go? Would additional time be added for the "play" that occurred prior to VAR making the call?

Liverpool v Man City today.

Penalty to Man City to go 1 up. No - 1-0 to Liverpool on the break from the non-penalty.
 


Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
45,919
at home
That Liverpool one is bloody scandalous!
 




Mayonaise

Well-known member
May 25, 2014
2,114
Haywards Heath
Even the second Liverpool goal - Salah was as offside as McGoldrick yesterday!

Sheff Utd's ruled out
Liverpool's given

VAR out....It's no more consistent than on field officials but takes away the spontaneity of a goal

It's completely ruining football
 




Washie

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
5,419
Eastbourne
Something seems very wrong, I feel it's easier to not **** up some of the things they're ****ing up, they're not even looking at certain angles. I think the refs are ****ing it up on purpose.
.
 


Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,575
Back in Sussex
Even the second Liverpool goal - Salah was as offside as McGoldrick yesterday!

Sheff Utd's ruled out
Liverpool's given

VAR out....It's no more consistent than on field officials but takes away the spontaneity of a goal

It's completely ruining football

Seemed a very quick decision.

Why didn't we see the "set square and coloured lines" shot?
 



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