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  1. #31
    Resident Australian Tyrone Biggums's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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    When the British took control of Hong Kong there were just a few thousand people living there. There's 1000 times as many now. Blaming the current problems on a declaration in Queen Victoria's time is ridiculous.

    Also, the Chinese agreed that Hong Kong citizens would keep their democracy for 50 years. China is going back on the agreement. With China prepared to do that, would it really make any difference if we had a 1000 year lease? The Chinese would just take it anyway.

    They still pretend Taiwan is part of China.

    When you see the open and state sanctioned (and funded) bullshit China is undertaking in Taiwan it makes you wonder why it's not a bigger story than the fake news of Russians meddling in USA elections.

    Pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into churning out Pro-Chinese information through Taiwanese media.
    It's a marathon, not a sprint.

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    • #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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      When the British took control of Hong Kong there were just a few thousand people living there. There's 1000 times as many now. Blaming the current problems on a declaration in Queen Victoria's time is ridiculous.

      Also, the Chinese agreed that Hong Kong citizens would keep their democracy for 50 years. China is going back on the agreement. With China prepared to do that, would it really make any difference if we had a 1000 year lease? The Chinese would just take it anyway.

      They still pretend Taiwan is part of China.
      In essence, I agree that the idea of a 1000 year lease would not make any difference, China are their own masters, but steps should have been taken proactively regarding the status of Hong Kong citizens either before 97 or after.

      In my wider argument, the sentence you picked out stated that we got involved in the first place. We installed a democracy next door to a one-party-state, and accordingly, we are to blame for what has become a wider dispute about democracy in the region. This isn't a bad thing at all but the lease (and the end of it) is therefore a clear cause of the current problems. As you state, whilst under British rule, the population has risen dramatically and the reality is, as a country we do have some responsibility for them. Personally, I don't think it is right for us to just wash our hands of Hong Kong and I hope at the very least there is some kind of citizenship offered.
      "Do what you do, stay as you are, let's keep having fun." Sam Baldock
    • #33
      Listen to me!!! bluenitsuj's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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      When the British took control of Hong Kong there were just a few thousand people living there. There's 1000 times as many now. Blaming the current problems on a declaration in Queen Victoria's time is ridiculous.

      Also, the Chinese agreed that Hong Kong citizens would keep their democracy for 50 years. China is going back on the agreement. With China prepared to do that, would it really make any difference if we had a 1000 year lease? The Chinese would just take it anyway.

      They still pretend Taiwan is part of China.
      This. My wife is Taiwanese so I keep up to date with everything going on over there. The Taiwanese cannot stand the Chinese and the worry is that once Hong Kong is 'sorted', China will then look to Taiwan.
      The current Taiwanese president is pro independence, and China have cut off pretty much all tourism to Taiwan from China and have just announced they will no longer give out a visa for individuals who want to visit Taiwan.

      A few years ago anywhere you went in Taiwan was crowded with Chinese Tourists who would spend lots of money, this has now stopped with just a handful of group visits which has had a huge impact on the economy. My brother in law is a tourist guide, driving groups of Chinese around the country on tours, his work has dried up as they are not coming and this is just one example of how China can dictate while not being in direct control.

      Apparently China has close to 2000 missiles pointing at Taiwan. If they attacked, no one would come to Taiwan's help, even though the USA have promised to, but I cannot see it. Hong Kong is the same, If China came in all heavy handed, no one would be able to react as China is untouchable unfortunately.
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    • #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Biggums View Post
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      Filthy communist turds are infiltrating Australian Universities.

      Recently at University of Queensland a peaceful protest turned violent because of the commie pricks.

      https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ity-queensland

      One pro-Hong Kong student who was there had his family in China visited by the state telling them to tell him to cease his actions. So they are here using their commie minions in the guise of "students" spying on peaceful protestors in a foreign nation.

      Utter dogs.
      Absolutely nothing about China is communist anymore. It's purely a dictatorship
    • #35
      Resident pedant Triggaaar's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Biggums View Post
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      Filthy communist turds are infiltrating Australian Universities.

      Recently at University of Queensland a peaceful protest turned violent because of the commie pricks.
      Agree with your point, except that China isn't communist any more. China operates capitalism, with rich and poor, it just does so without democracy.

      One pro-Hong Kong student who was there had his family in China visited by the state telling them to tell him to cease his actions. So they are here using their commie minions in the guise of "students" spying on peaceful protestors in a foreign nation.
      Have you got a link to that?
      Thank you Chris, you're a legend.
    • #36
      Resident pedant Triggaaar's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Beanstalk View Post
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      Personally, I don't think it is right for us to just wash our hands of Hong Kong and I hope at the very least there is some kind of citizenship offered.
      I wouldn't want to wash our hands of them. I don't know how workable it is to offer citizenship to £7m people. Where would they all go?

      I don't understand politics well enough to know why the free world can't do more against China's treatment of Hong Kong, just like I don't understand why Russia's occupation of the Crimea is accepted.
      Thank you Chris, you're a legend.
    • #37
      Resident Australian Tyrone Biggums's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by BN41Albion View Post
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      Absolutely nothing about China is communist anymore. It's purely a dictatorship
      Communism was always about dictatorships.

      The Chinese state is still up to the same old tricks it always was.
      It's a marathon, not a sprint.
    • #38
      Resident Australian Tyrone Biggums's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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      Agree with your point, except that China isn't communist any more. China operates capitalism, with rich and poor, it just does so without democracy.

      Have you got a link to that?
      A few links to what' s happening.

      https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...rleW92SFU4FRzg

      https://www.smh.com.au/national/pro-...08-p52fa8.html
      It's a marathon, not a sprint.
    • #39
      Members Steve in Japan's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Beanstalk View Post
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      We installed a democracy next door to a one-party-state, and accordingly, we are to blame for what has become a wider dispute about democracy in the region.
      I don't believe Hong Kong has ever been ruled democratically at any point in it's history. Not by us, and not by the Chinese.
    • #40
      Resident Australian Tyrone Biggums's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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      I wouldn't want to wash our hands of them. I don't know how workable it is to offer citizenship to £7m people. Where would they all go?

      I don't understand politics well enough to know why the free world can't do more against China's treatment of Hong Kong, just like I don't understand why Russia's occupation of the Crimea is accepted.
      I don't doubt places like Australia, Singapore and New Zealand will see a rise in Hong Kong residents leaving if it all goes tits up.
      It's a marathon, not a sprint.

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