[Brighton] Virgin Active Brighton

BrightonCottager · Oct 29, 2021

Publius Ovidius said:
But they are only for first years intakes aren’t they? The students then would move out into the community for the next 2 or 3 years?

This.
The government has changed the national policy to make it much harder for Councils to restrict changes of use like single family dwellings to HMOs. This was one of Dominic Cummings big ideas. So if the Council want to further retrict HMOs the burden of proof will be a lot higher.

I wonder if the University warned the Council it would be doing this? Next week there's a public inquiry starting into the Council's Local Plan that sets out how it will allocate land for the City's housing needs (and not screw up the environment even more). Suddenly there's up to 1500 extra people wanting to live here. If the University hasn't informed the Council I doubt the latter will be amused.

Weststander · Oct 29, 2021

Publius Ovidius said:
But they are only for first years intakes aren’t they? The students then would move out into the community for the next 2 or 3 years?

Is that the case with all the privately built student flatlets? I was under the impression that many students including overseas students use them for years 1 to 3, or 2 to 3.

In addition, when I was at uni in the 80’s, a sizeable proportion of students went back into halls in year 3 to allegedly focus on the key year. Still the case, anyone?

Weststander · Oct 29, 2021

BrightonCottager said:
This.
The government has changed the national policy to make it much harder for Councils to restrict changes of use like single family dwellings to HMOs. This was one of Dominic Cummings big ideas. So if the Council want to further retrict HMOs the burden of proof will be a lot higher.

I wonder if the University warned the Council it would be doing this? Next week there's a public inquiry starting into the Council's Local Plan that sets out how it will allocate land for the City's housing needs (and not screw up the environment even more). Suddenly there's up to 1500 extra people wanting to live here. If the University hasn't informed the Council I doubt the latter will be amused.

That widens the discussion.

The housing need in England alone is 8m.
https://www.housing.org.uk/resources/people-in-housing-need/

Quite simply, the building of new homes hasn’t matched the huge growth in population and other causes. People have got to live somewhere, SE England is a popular part of the world, the next gen don’t want to move hundreds of miles away. It’s unjust that folk live in B&B’s, with family into their 30’s or on mates sofas.

Governments set out BHCC’s contribution about 10 years ago at 24,000 units. Other councils up and down the country produced their local plans fairly swiftly and got on in giving planning permissions to both brownfield and urban fringe sites. BHCC have dragged out the process for all that time, it’s political (nimbies carry a lot of votes), the number of units given permission annually falling far short of the prescribed target. BHCC won’t get off the hook, the Planning Inspectorate are aware of the shortfall and cumulatively it will be pursued. Where the council procrastinate, the Planning Inspectorate will give permission to applicants on appeal, taking into BHCC’s failure to meet the targets as a key consideration.

We sit in decent homes. ‘Millennials’ deserve a chance too. BHCC needs to significantly contribute.

Weststander · Oct 29, 2021

LamieRobertson said:
I drove that way after the City game …it was the first time in years …completely transformed

Not for a couple of years for me, but en route to Stanmer Park this week …. thought it was impressive and a huge improvement.

Acker79 · Oct 30, 2021

Weststander said:
Is that the case with all the privately built student flatlets? I was under the impression that many students including overseas students use them for years 1 to 3, or 2 to 3.

In addition, when I was at uni in the 80’s, a sizeable proportion of students went back into halls in year 3 to allegedly focus on the key year. Still the case, anyone?

I was at Uni over the turn of the millenium. The University only guaranteed housing in the first year, then you had to go private (I think the only exceptions were for anyone working as a residential adviser-type

Hugo Rune · Oct 30, 2021

Weststander said:
Is that the case with all the privately built student flatlets? I was under the impression that many students including overseas students use them for years 1 to 3, or 2 to 3.

This is the case.

All first years (and international students) are now guaranteed official University accommodation at both institutions.

But private halls are now a very attractive option to 2nd, 3rd and 4th years or post grad students. For example, there are over 700 private student rooms in the Moulsecoomb development managed by Student Castle & Scape, it’s highly unlikely that many 1st year students including internationals will be in these halls. A new 400+ room development is due to open next year at the bottom of Moulsecoomb way, these are not designed for 1st years because they all have accommodation already.

Shared student HMO housing in family areas is (hopefully) about to decrease dramatically.

BrightonCottager · Oct 30, 2021

[MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] - you obviously know your planning and housing policy. The Council - whichever party is leading it - is in an invidious position trying to find enough land to allocate for housing when we're hemmed in by the sea and the national park and trying to balance environmental and social conditions with meeting housing need. The abolition of regional planning hasn't helped or sped up the system either. My point about the University's announcement is that its effectively adding to the housing need, at potentially an unhelpful moment (the local plan inquiry starting next week) and will only increase pressure for more HMOs and increase house purchase and rental prices.

Hugo Rune · Oct 30, 2021

BrightonCottager said:
[MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] - My point about the University's announcement is that its effectively adding to the housing need, at potentially an unhelpful moment (the local plan inquiry starting next week) and will only increase pressure for more HMOs and increase house purchase and rental prices.

The Eastbourne campus will close in 2024.

By then, the number of rooms in new private purpose built halls (aimed at 2nd, 3rd & post grad students) in Brighton will almost certainly exceed 1,500. The idea that there would be more HMOs is just not realistic, it’s more bespoke student halls/flats that will be seen, almost certainly in Moulsecoomb or around the Vougue gyratiory.

A quick glance on google yields these two yet-to-open projects.

https://www.brightonandhoveindepend...dean-block-student-flats-approved-2517272?amp

https://mclarenproperty.com/project/moulsecombe-way/

These new developments will already cater for the couple of hundred halls students the University have in Eastbourne.

Stuart Munday · Oct 30, 2021

Hugo Rune said:
The Eastbourne campus will close in 2024.

By then, the number of rooms in new private purpose built halls (aimed at 2nd, 3rd & post grad students) in Brighton will almost certainly exceed 1,500. The idea that there would be more HMOs is just not realistic, it’s more bespoke student halls/flats that will be seen, almost certainly in Moulsecoomb or around the Vougue gyratiory.

A quick glance on google yields these two yet-to-open projects.

https://www.brightonandhoveindepend...dean-block-student-flats-approved-2517272?amp

https://mclarenproperty.com/project/moulsecombe-way/

These new developments will already cater for the couple of hundred halls students the University have in Eastbourne.

I assume the building work between Coldean Lane and the A27 will be student accommodation as well.

Hugo Rune · Oct 30, 2021

Stuart Munday said:
I assume the building work between Coldean Lane and the A27 will be student accommodation as well.

No. Unusually, that one is for families.

Wrong-Direction · Oct 30, 2021

Hugo Rune said:
Planning permission for student accommodation has sailed through at council level when various enterprises have applied. The football club has even looked at building student halls.

There has been a strategy at play.

The council strategy is clearly to reclaim family homes by at first restricting HMO licenses and then reducing them. I believe (this is a guess) that the council will launch a new HMO scheme soon. Private landlords will have to apply to continue to keep the HMO status of their properties, but the conditions of them doing it will be very very restrictive resulting in hundreds and hundreds of homes being returned to the family rental/sale market.

I’d be shocked if this does not happen. There are hundreds and hundreds of new rooms currently being built or planned, it’s time for the council to act by hammering private landlords to force them to rent to families only. This city is losing way too many families to local towns, there is a gap in the demographic that needs filling.

I hope you're right [emoji1696]

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Wrong-Direction · Oct 30, 2021

Weststander said:
Not for a couple of years for me, but en route to Stanmer Park this week …. thought it was impressive and a huge improvement.

Traffic still a nightmare most of the time though!

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Wrong-Direction · Oct 30, 2021

Won't most landlords want to carry on renting to families instead of students? I wonder how many will go up for sale

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Weststander · Oct 30, 2021

BrightonCottager said:
[MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] - you obviously know your planning and housing policy. The Council - whichever party is leading it - is in an invidious position trying to find enough land to allocate for housing when we're hemmed in by the sea and the national park and trying to balance environmental and social conditions with meeting housing need. The abolition of regional planning hasn't helped or sped up the system either. My point about the University's announcement is that its effectively adding to the housing need, at potentially an unhelpful moment (the local plan inquiry starting next week) and will only increase pressure for more HMOs and increase house purchase and rental prices.

I know developers and social housing providers who in the last decade spent years battling with BHCC for brownfield projects. Not over development of too many floors, sometimes just two story homes. Some of the stories beggar belief, I won’t give the detail here. Incompetence and vanity by some planning officers. Local politics by councillors (all parties) seeking the votes of all the objectors.

LamieRobertson · Oct 30, 2021

Wrong-Direction said:
Won't most landlords want to carry on renting to families instead of students? I wonder how many will go up for sale

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Families? Have you news

The Clamp · Oct 30, 2021

B&HCC are highly unlikely to reduce HMO’s. And why shouldn’t people who don’t live in a traditional family unit have affordable accommodation? It’s a good solution.
If people don’t like HMO’s perhaps a city is not the place for them, especially a university city.

Yes, I know people want to live in some sort of suburban utopia of cut lawns and neighbours for life. All sorts of people live in HMO’s, many of them not students but single people on low incomes who can’t buy or even rent a decent flat in the city and don’t want to live in some depressing bedsit.

Weststander · Oct 30, 2021

The Clamp said:
B&HCC are highly unlikely to reduce HMO’s. And why shouldn’t people who don’t live in a traditional family unit have affordable accommodation? It’s a good solution.
If people don’t like HMO’s perhaps a city is not the place for them, especially a university city.

Yes, I know people want to live in some sort of suburban utopia of cut lawns and neighbours for life. All sorts of people live in HMO’s, many of them not students but single people on low incomes who can’t buy or even rent a decent flat in the city and don’t want to live in some depressing bedsit.

Isn't it more the Queens Park to Lewes Road urban area we're talking about here, mainly 2 or 3 bed terraced homes?

The Clamp · Oct 30, 2021

Weststander said:
Isn't it more the Queens Park to Lewes Road urban area we're talking about here, mainly 2 or 3 bed terraced homes?

I believe so. That’s part of the city I thought?

Hugo Rune · Oct 30, 2021

The Clamp said:
B&HCC are highly unlikely to reduce HMO’s.

Let’s see. They are due to update the housing strategy soon.
https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/si...ousing Strategy 2015 (FULL COUNCIL FINAL).pdf
I’ve heard that HMO’s will get reduced. It’s very hard to get a new license as it is.

The Clamp said:
And why shouldn’t people who don’t live in a traditional family unit have affordable accommodation? It’s a good solution.

They should, that’s fine but in Brighton & Hove, too many family houses have been converted to HMO’s. This has been informing council strategy for years, it’s a known problem. Unfortunately, Primary schools are having a lot of issues with declining intakes now. But there are plenty of other side effects of having too many HMO’s. There needs to be a mass cull. It makes sense to try and house students elsewhere and there are plenty of businesses set-up or setting up to do this.

For example, these 450 rooms in central Brighton are all private and aimed at any Student.
https://www.kaplan-living.com/residence/brighton/?
This is the future, not poorly maintained HMO’s run by dodgy slum landlords.

The Clamp said:
If people don’t like HMO’s perhaps a city is not the place for them, especially a university city.

I’d be shocked if you could find a City with more HMO’s as a percentage of housing stock than Brighton & Hove. Simply put, Students don’t leave after graduation because the culture and quality of life is so high. This is a Brighton problem, not a ‘living in any City’ issue.

The Clamp said:
Yes, I know people want to live in some sort of suburban utopia of cut lawns and neighbours for life. All sorts of people live in HMO’s, many of them not students but single people on low incomes who can’t buy or even rent a decent flat in the city and don’t want to live in some depressing bedsit.

Single people can’t buy in Brighton because private landlords own so much of the housing stock. Reducing HMO licenses might be a way of forcing more properties on to the market alongside the building of new homes.

The Clamp · Oct 30, 2021

Shame. If HMO’s are regulated properly they are a great solution for those that can’t afford to buy or even rent flats. Also a shame family home owners don’t want them near them. An easy position to take when you can afford your own place.

I guess there are so many because Brighton is so very expensive compared to 99% of other university cities. That’s not going to change I’m afraid. Truly Affordable housing is not getting built and it doesn’t go to the people who need it and can work for it. Another sector of society will get priced out of Brighton if they reduce HMO’s.

HMO’s are a good solution and allow people to live in quite nice places and saves them from bedsit land. Putting these houses back on the “family market” is not a solution. How is someone living in an HMO going to suddenly be able to afford a house? Ridiculous notion.

An HMO saved my bacon when I had to leave a relationship. They help many, many vulnerable people out of bad situations. It’s not all students. HMO’s are a force for good for many people even if being near one is not good for your property value.

But not in my back yard and all that. Why should someone who can afford their own house have to look at people who can’t?!

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