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  1. #951
    Members Bold Seagull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willow View Post
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    I didn't say NZ were wronged, just England were lucky. No problem at all with England winning the World Cup. Overall, they were the best team in the tournament. However, I do feel they got very lucky in the final.
    The biggest bit of luck either side could have had in that final on that pitch was winning the toss.

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    • #952
      Members dazzer6666's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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      No.

      When did the ball become dead - when it hit the ropes.
      How many runs had already been completed at that point - 2.
      Was there a run in progress at that point (to which we can apply the timing of the throw rule) - no.

      You cannot argue that our second run was in progress when the ball hit the ropes. That run had been completed.

      Sure, you could say that run was in progress when the ball was thrown, but the rule does not refer to 'runs that were in progress when the ball was thrown', instead it refers to a 'run in progress' [at the time the ball becomes dead] if...
      with an extra clause added if a run is in progress when the ball hits the ropes.
      Correct. The ball was still ‘live’ until it hit the rope. 2 runs had been completed at that point.
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    • #953
      Members PILTDOWN MAN's Avatar
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      1 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Willow View Post
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      I didn't say NZ were wronged, just England were lucky. No problem at all with England winning the World Cup. Overall, they were the best team in the tournament. However, I do feel they got very lucky in the final.
      Any team who wins a huge competition will have had the benefit of "luck" going their way, that is often the difference. England did ride their luck but to analyse just one run to death is meaningless. The LBW decisions one was missing but NZ had previously wasted their review and one was umpires call. How many times does it say umpires call? I'd hazard a guess a least once in every game. Every team has either benefited or not from these decisions in every game.
      Last edited by PILTDOWN MAN; 16-07-2019 at 10:25.
      “FROM the towns all Inns have been driven: from the villages most. . . . Change your hearts or you will lose your Inns and you will deserve to have lost them. But when you have lost your Inns drown your empty selves, for you will have lost the last of England.”
    • #954
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      Quote Originally Posted by Triggaaar View Post
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      No.

      When did the ball become dead - when it hit the ropes.
      How many runs had already been completed at that point - 2.
      Was there a run in progress at that point (to which we can apply the timing of the throw rule) - no.

      You cannot argue that our second run was in progress when the ball hit the ropes. That run had been completed.

      Sure, you could say that run was in progress when the ball was thrown, but the rule does not refer to 'runs that were in progress when the ball was thrown', instead it refers to a 'run in progress' [at the time the ball becomes dead] if...
      with an extra clause added if a run is in progress when the ball hits the ropes.
      The ball was dead when it hit the ropes. If the ball was retrieved before hitting the ropes it would still be live.
      But the rule isn't about when the ball is dead. It's about whether the batsman had crossed at the time Guptil threw (the act) it.

      Your understanding is the same as the mistaken umpires. Or as I mentioned earlier the umpires may have thought the batsmen had crossed before Gupi threw the ball. In that case a bad decision (similar to the 2 bad LBWs decisions etc) and we move on .
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    • #955

      3 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by hans kraay fan club View Post
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      The non award of a four at fine leg cost England w runs in the chase..
      Is that the one where the fielders foot touched the boundary market thing but they only looked at it for about 20 seconds and they only gave the 2 runs?
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    • #956
      Resident pedant Triggaaar's Avatar
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      3 Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by Willow View Post
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      I didn't say NZ were wronged, just England were lucky.
      Ok, fair enough. When you said "To me, the celebrations were muted. They know they got away with one there", it read as more than 'they got lucky with marginal decisions, and more towards 'NZ were wronged'.

      No problem at all with England winning the World Cup. Overall, they were the best team in the tournament.
      Sure, and I know plenty of people have said that. I'm arguing the point about the 6 runs purely because I'm sure others are reading it incorrectly. I've seen some Indian cricket commentators and an Australian ex-umpire give their verdicts, but I'm willing to bet that my understanding of English punctuation is better than theirs.

      However, I do feel they got very lucky in the final.
      That's fine. It seems that some of us disagree. We were lucky with the ball that hit Stokes's bat - no argument there (that's 4 runs). We were also lucky with Taylor's wicket (although New Zealand contributed to that by wasting their review). I'm not sure we were that lucky with Roy's lbw decision - it was close and the umpires aren't expect to give it out when it's that close. In contrast, I'd add that we were unlucky with some calls, like wides and the a boundary call as highlighted by hans kraay, and New Zealand were lucky to win the toss (someone has to win it, but let's not pretend that's not lucky).
      Last edited by Triggaaar; 16-07-2019 at 10:39.
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    • #957
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      As I read it the deflection by Stokes of the ball to the boundary had to be intentional and I do not think that it was so that rule doesn't come into force. and the 2 runs plus the boundary making 6 was correct. Anything else is clutching at straws. Mind you my interpretation could be wrong as no doubt I will be told.
    • #958
      Members Bold Seagull's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by colinz View Post
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      similar to the 2 bad LBWs decisions etc and we move on .
      Which 2 were those?
    • #959
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bevendean Hillbilly View Post
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      The King of Spain had it right on the beeb this morning..

      “Whether it was 5 runs or 6 is debatable, what isn’t is that we have the World Cup, and we’re not giving it back”

      Here endeth the lesson.
      That's a shame it would have looked nice sitting between the Rugby World Cup & Americas Cup.

      2nd thoughts best you look after it for us. Be a shame if it ended up looking like this.
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    • #960
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bold Seagull View Post
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      Which 2 were those?
      Taylor & Roy
      Newton's Third Law of Motion:

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