[Palace] Costs of the Royal family

beorhthelm · Jun 26, 2019

grawhite said:
The Royal family bring more money into the country then any other business, so the little bit spent on home upgrades is just pocket change...

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they really dont.

narly101 · Jun 26, 2019

NooBHA said:
I am no fan of the Monarchy but refurbishing this building I have no issue with it being met.

The problem I have is with the Journalist who wheel out this terminology '' cost to the taxpayer '' in an attempt to sensationalise news stories.

They did the same when RBS and Northern Rock had to be ''bailed out several years ago - The ''cost to the public'' would truly have been ''realised'' if people who banked with those institutions had truly lost all their money in those banks, had they not been bailed out by the Government after all the Bankers mismanagement in the preceding years.

Tabloid newspapers keep trying to make us believe that we personally are paying for these costs and often the people who most get up in arms are people claiming benefits and who are not taxpayers anyhow. Although I do have some sympathy in that regard in that the funds could be used to help many of the less abled bodied people, less able to work. Thus there no doubt is some sort of ''cost to the taxpayer''

So by all means fund the cost of the upgrade of these properties but I wish The Press would stop making the people of this country feel that we have some sort of ownership in them. We do not and it is patronising when newspapers try to indicate that people personally have some sort of ownership stake in them when most of us will never see them from anywhere, other than from the other side of a 12 feet wall.

This could be a record - only 3 pages before something sensible was posted. +1 and a massive thumbs up.

The Clamp · Jun 26, 2019

Too much. Get rid. Waste of space. End of thread.

highflyer · Jun 26, 2019

symyjym said:
Ouch how quickly this took a turn and suddenly you are implying that I am a Nazi.

For good or for bad, which I said, and without being emotionally attached, for a country of our size to have had the largest global empire ever is quite impressive no matter how you want to look at it because to attain that status was driven by innovation and the desire for discovery. It's an innate human thing.

Why aren't we allowed to be impressed by our state of the art ship building and ruling the waves for 150 years after being the focus for invasion ourselves? We had the Barbary pirates raiding our ships off Cornwall and shores for booty and slaves for 300 years and were constantly under the threat of siege and invasion. We were forced to become great ship builders and we ended up doing it very well. Surely there is no shame in this is there?

Captain Cook was a master map maker with maps that can only now be bettered by Google. He peacefully discovered lands yet he was chopped up on a beach by the natives after a misunderstanding. It wasn't plain sailing and we were as tough on our people as we were on others. Scientifically and technically we were leaps and bounds ahead of the world and all from this tiny innocuous Island competing against France, Holland, Spain and Portugal on the world stage.

Why are we not allowed to be impressed by connecting all our industries by canal and later by railways with tunnels and bridges that drove the industrial revolution and the men working down coal mines and construction to feed it? Just because the Romans fed Christians to the lions it doesn't make Rome any less impressive.

And yes empires have gone out of fashion and we learned that it is not important on reflection, and that is why we were the last great empire and one that abolished the slavery that had been going on for thousands of years. We also put a stop to the ancient Hindu tradition where a widow would burn herself to death on her husband's pyre. That has to be a good thing too surely?

Historically the British Empire was very impressive and there is no argument to that statement.

Hugly selective

We have deliberately, and thoroughly re-written history in our favour.

Colonialism was a brutal, murderous process, driven by greed and sustained by the deliberate propogation of racism (and of course before that we built our economy on slavery). It's legacy remains alive and well, in our system of global institutions, in our cultural and structural racism, in our financial system, in our education system.

To a great extent, our privileged lives (a result of the pure luck in being born here in the UK) are a direct result of this brutality, but that is a fact we mainly choose to ignore.

Is that impressive? No Not as I understand that word.

symyjym · Jun 26, 2019

Billy the Fish said:
The tourism is a bit of a red herring IMHO. Their real value is in PR for the county, they're flying around the world selling the UK brand.

If it wasn't them doing it, it would be someone else, and given the current state of politics that someone else would be a power mad, highly corrupt politician.

Try telling that to the Japanese. London and Buckingham Palace is top of their lists that's for sure. 1/4 million Japanese bringing in about £1/2b just by themselves.

Quote from Google question: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...-wiz.......0i71j0i67j0i131j0j0i10.3HmUK8vJ520

"The United Kingdom is the world's 6th biggest tourist destination, with over 40 million visiting in 2018"

The Clamp · Jun 26, 2019

Keep the magnificent buildings and parks. Give them back to the people. Nips will still come and take endless pictures of the buildings thinking Liz is in there feeding caviar to her mutts.

clapham_gull · Jun 26, 2019

symyjym said:
Try telling that to the Japanese. London and Buckingham Palace is top of their lists that's for sure. 1/4 million Japanese bringing in about £1/2b just by themselves.

Quote from Google question: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...-wiz.......0i71j0i67j0i131j0j0i10.3HmUK8vJ520

"The United Kingdom is the world's 6th biggest tourist destination, with over 40 million visiting in 2018"

Yes, but how does that justify 2.4 million for a minor Royals private house they can't visit.

The Clamp · Jun 26, 2019

clapham_gull said:
Yes, but how does that justify 2.4 million for a minor Royals private house they can't visit.

Quite. Do people think these building would collapse if some prince doesn’t live there. Plenty of independently wealthy folk who would but them and pay for their upkeep without bothering public coffers.
Royal family are total spongers . Burn them out.

Surf's Up · Jun 26, 2019

The great munitions designer himself has just the right piece of kit to sort the Royals out once and for all......

symyjym · Jun 26, 2019

highflyer said:
Hugly selective

We have deliberately, and thoroughly re-written history in our favour.

Colonialism was a brutal, murderous process, driven by greed and sustained by the deliberate propogation of racism (and of course before that we built our economy on slavery). It's legacy remains alive and well, in our system of global institutions, in our cultural and structural racism, in our financial system, in our education system.

To a great extent, our privileged lives (a result of the pure luck in being born here in the UK) are a direct result of this brutality, but that is a fact we mainly choose to ignore.

Is that impressive? No Not as I understand that word.

You clearly don't get it do you. Not everyone was driven by greed or was responsible for what happened overseas. Life was brutal for everyone back then.

The Arab slavery for instance had been going on for almost a thousand years, where they used to even castrate them. They were the main suppliers to the Europeans in slave markets.

Below is what the naive white man saw at these slave markets like Zanzibar, and this video was long after we banned it.

https://youtu.be/Ov9GFPmoOPg

Portugal, Spain, France jumped in on the slave trade well before Britain did. We were the last to join and the first to abolish and it wasn't as if we went to Africa and caught the people in nets and invented slavery. Any plantations in the Caribbean that we were involved with were stolen from the the French and Spanish anyway.

Working down the coalmines feeding the industrial revolution was brutal and so was working in iron production. Being press ganged to work on a wooden ship wasn't a bunch of laughs where being disobedient or making mistakes led to flogging and even execution. We have thousands of shipwrecks around our shores and the chances of surviving more than one journey was slim.

Also Britain didn't invent racism. Religious belief systems and being the chosen people has been the main cause of racism but thankfully Britain had Darwin to help us grow out of this religious mind set and have evolved to understand that we are in fact one of the great apes.

Our colonialism was all about trade not theft which was unlike all other empires before. Britain didn't have to fight to set up an embassy in India to trade. Britain was welcomed.

We are very honest about our history, and when it has been written in our favour modern historians will revisit it academically and put the truth back in no matter how bad it is. This is a very British thing to do.

symyjym · Jun 26, 2019

clapham_gull said:
Yes, but how does that justify 2.4 million for a minor Royals private house they can't visit.

In footballing terms 2.4 million is a drop in the ocean and all it will do is add value to a property in need of modernisation.

I don't feel cheated by it like I did with Kemy Augustine and Leon Best robbing us.

highflyer · Jun 26, 2019

symyjym said:
You clearly don't get it do you. Not everyone was driven by greed or was responsible for what happened overseas. Life was brutal for everyone back then.

The Arab slavery for instance had been going on for almost a thousand years, where they used to even castrate them. They were the main suppliers to the Europeans in slave markets.

Below is what the naive white man saw at these slave markets like Zanzibar, and this video was long after we banned it.

https://youtu.be/Ov9GFPmoOPg

Portugal, Spain, France jumped in on the slave trade well before Britain did. We were the last to join and the first to abolish and it wasn't as if we went to Africa and caught the people in nets and invented slavery. Any plantations in the Caribbean that we were involved with were stolen from the the French and Spanish anyway.

Working down the coalmines feeding the industrial revolution was brutal and so was working in iron production. Being press ganged to work on a wooden ship wasn't a bunch of laughs where being disobedient or making mistakes led to flogging and even execution. We have thousands of shipwrecks around our shores and the chances of surviving more than one journey was slim.

Also Britain didn't invent racism. Religious belief systems and being the chosen people has been the main cause of racism but thankfully Britain had Darwin to help us grow out of this religious mind set and have evolved to understand that we are in fact one of the great apes.

Our colonialism was all about trade not theft which was unlike all other empires before. Britain didn't have to fight to set up an embassy in India to trade. Britain was welcomed.

We are very honest about our history, and when it has been written in our favour modern historians will revisit it academically and put the truth back in no matter how bad it is. This is a very British thing to do.

And you say i don't 'get it'.

As I said, the truth is uncomfortable and most of us would rather believe the propaganda we've been fed all our lives.

There is a massive literature out there exploring the real history of Empire. But I'd highly recommend this: https://books.google.co.uk/books/ab...p_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

clapham_gull · Jun 26, 2019

symyjym said:
In footballing terms 2.4 million is a drop in the ocean and all it will do is add value to a property in need of modernisation.

I don't feel cheated by it like I did with Kemy Augustine and Leon Best robbing us.

Whataboutism.

symyjym · Jun 26, 2019

clapham_gull said:
Whataboutism.

And there's me thinking that I was injecting some humour. This £2.4 million will be going straight back into the economy when they purchase the building materials and pay the contractors, architects and legal fees which is all taxable. People will be feeding their families and making mortgage payments with the money.

At the end of the day though we should judge Megan and Harry's value on their contribution to the world and we will see their worth in due course.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Jun 26, 2019

symyjym said:
And there's me thinking that I was injecting some humour. This £2.4 million will be going straight back into the economy when they purchase the building materials and pay the contractors, architects and legal fees which is all taxable. People will be feeding their families and making mortgage payments with the money.

At the end of the day though we should judge Megan and Harry's value on their contribution to the world and we will see their worth in due course.

Logically, the first part of your post is an argument for giving them even more?

oneillco · Jun 26, 2019

symyjym said:
Ouch how quickly this took a turn and suddenly you are implying that I am a Nazi.

For good or for bad, which I said, and without being emotionally attached, for a country of our size to have had the largest global empire ever is quite impressive no matter how you want to look at it because to attain that status was driven by innovation and the desire for discovery. It's an innate human thing.

Why aren't we allowed to be impressed by our state of the art ship building and ruling the waves for 150 years after being the focus for invasion ourselves? We had the Barbary pirates raiding our ships off Cornwall and shores for booty and slaves for 300 years and were constantly under the threat of siege and invasion. We were forced to become great ship builders and we ended up doing it very well. Surely there is no shame in this is there?

Captain Cook was a master map maker with maps that can only now be bettered by Google. He peacefully discovered lands yet he was chopped up on a beach by the natives after a misunderstanding. It wasn't plain sailing and we were as tough on our people as we were on others. Scientifically and technically we were leaps and bounds ahead of the world and all from this tiny innocuous Island competing against France, Holland, Spain and Portugal on the world stage.

Why are we not allowed to be impressed by connecting all our industries by canal and later by railways with tunnels and bridges that drove the industrial revolution and the men working down coal mines and construction to feed it? Just because the Romans fed Christians to the lions it doesn't make Rome any less impressive.

And yes empires have gone out of fashion and we learned that it is not important on reflection, and that is why we were the last great empire and one that abolished the slavery that had been going on for thousands of years. We also put a stop to the ancient Hindu tradition where a widow would burn herself to death on her husband's pyre. That has to be a good thing too surely?

Historically the British Empire was very impressive and there is no argument to that statement.

I'm not implying you're a Nazi at all, but I do think that if you took your Empire rose tinted spectacles off for 5 minutes you might see things from another perspective. What indigenous people anywhere in the world would say they benefited from being annexed for the Empire? The Australian aboriginals? The native Americans? Africans? The Palestinians? The Irish? Throughout the Empire local tribes were controlled with the gun. Not only were local tribes subdued by violence but the continual threat of violence should there be resistance to the new legal codes and customs introduced by the British brought a psychological feeling of inferiority. And the legacy of this Empire which crumpled so rapidly in the 20th century is still at the core of so many of the worlds current problem hot-spots.

FatSuperman · Jun 26, 2019

Brovion said:
And yes, I'm seriously asking that question (which despite the bluster in your post you didn't answer).

Possibly wasn’t clear, but my answer was ‘I’m not suggesting that all people or many people would stop visiting Britain if we dissolve the monarchy. I don’t think anyone could really say what the impact would be. I dare say that SOME people, especially certain types of American tourists, may reconsider visiting Britain.’

One Teddy Maybank · Jun 26, 2019

Icy Gull said:
All peanuts when you consider how much the Roayal Family bring into the UK in tourism....allegedly

They all largely do a great job, and I do not begrudge the upgrade one bit.

The number of tourists visiting royal owned property alone, would probably account for the renovations, not to mention the knock-on effect on tourism more widely. A few years ago I read somewhere that the nett financial benefit was over £100m.

Can’t remember where I read it, all I can remember it was around when we played Yeovil away!

In recent times the amount of charity work is also very commendable.

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symyjym · Jun 26, 2019

highflyer said:
And you say i don't 'get it'.

As I said, the truth is uncomfortable and most of us would rather believe the propaganda we've been fed all our lives.

There is a massive literature out there exploring the real history of Empire. But I'd highly recommend this: https://books.google.co.uk/books/ab...p_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

I have no problem with historical facts and I embrace truth. You are welcome to point out to me where I have used propaganda in my comment.

Is female genital mutilation barbaric? I can see that this practice is written about on page 21 of the link and the British wanted to impose a ban.

The assassination of Waruhiu is an interesting read who as a Kenyan bought into the western ideology unfortunately for him not everyone did.

Britain's primary objective was trade and westernising indigenous people but things happen that are not planned for and troubles escalate.

I think my point was made that we are happy to revisit historical events, and because the British documented everything, Caroline Elkins, the author of the book, was able to write about what happened with a fresh view on events.

I am talking about the people who designed and developed wooden ships and the crafts people who built them, the people who joined the canals together to enable industries to connect and work together. The scientists like Newton, Faraday, James Clerk Maxwell, Darwin, and engineers like Brunel and Stephenson etc with explorers like Cook, Shackleton, Scott and Hilary.

All the workers from coal miners to railway track workers, tunnelling and bridge builders building our infrastructure. Britain pioneered the modern world and we were laying communication cables all around the world in Victorian times. More recently the Harrier Jump Jet which stood the test of time, Concorde. Even today the Rolls Royce jet engines are the preferred choice for aircraft.

Britain was the blueprint for the modern world and was embraced by Hong Kong without rebellion. They certainly wish they were still part of Britain.

We should be proud of our pioneering heritage whilst also reflecting on mistakes when we ventured into the unknown, and I am not going to be made to feel ashamed of the past. I am more ashamed of our recent history and current mess we are in with Blair invading Iraq in our name an putting our soldiers and public at risk, with Cameron also playing a part in overthrowing Gaddafi and our war mongering in Syria.

Simster · Jun 26, 2019

Stuff like this is click-bait really. The reality is that we'll never really know whether we get good VFM from the Royals all the while the establishment prop them up, and they do as there are so many vested interests in doing so.

I'm more concerned with the complete injustice surrounding an unaccountable royal family who do as they please than the cost of buildings, and I get tired of this argument that they bring in tourism revenue. As has been said many times on this thread, it's done France no harm whatsoever being a republic Perversely though, I'd be comfortable with a figurehead head of state, it's just that we prop up the whole lot of them rather than just the Queen. Prince Andrew does things that should see him in prison, Charles meddles in stuff he has no business in doing so (and his manners and lack of respect are awful), we've put up with the Queen Mum who was a dreadful snob, and so on. They're all afforded a level of respect they don't merit, IMO..

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[Palace] Costs of the Royal family

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