[Football] Another VAR Thread

mune ni kamome · Jun 20, 2019

This time tactics.

I’m beginning to think VAR will change football so fundamentally that different tactics may be needed by coaches, players etc
1. Hoof that ball out of the area ASAP. Don’t pussyfoot around trying to play the ball out

2. Extensions to the back heel of goalkeepers boots to keep their feet legal on the line

Anything else?

southstandandy · Jun 20, 2019

Having seen the Argentina womens VAR penalty re-take last night against Scotland (correct by the letter of the law) I've done a bit of digging regarding last year's Premier League penalties awarded.

Apparently of the 103 given in the Premier League last season, under the new VAR rules (keeper not having 1 foot on or above the line, or encroachment by an attacking player at the point of the kick being taken), 93 of them would have to have been re-taken! Only 10 were legitimate if the rules imposed this coming season were to be have been used last season!

I suspect we are going to see large numbers retaken this season due to either the keeper moving and/or player encroachment (which has rarely ever been punished before, and apparently is going to be looked at by VAR upon each penalty given).

It's going to be a whole new ball game next season methinks.

Pogue Mahone · Jun 20, 2019

Does the goalkeeper have to be actually on the line, or is 'behind the line' okay? I think that keepers will change their starting position to 50cm behind so that their forward momentum means that they are still legal as the kick is taken if the latter is correct.

Penalty shoot outs are going to finish at midnight if the rules are followed as they were last night.

Perhaps it's time for a new pitch marking, 1m in front of the line. The keeper must be on the goal line as the run up starts and must not cross the 1m line at any point during the taking of the penalty.

Whitechapel · Jun 20, 2019

I think we’ll see a LOT of penalties over the first couple of weeks of the season.

Bet 365 have most teams at around 7/1 to score a penalty on the opening day of the season. There’s certainly some money to be had there with a couple of Yankee bets.

Guinness Boy · Jun 20, 2019

mune ni kamome said:
This time tactics.

I’m beginning to think VAR will change football so fundamentally that different tactics may be needed by coaches, players etc
1. Hoof that ball out of the area ASAP. Don’t pussyfoot around trying to play the ball out

2. Extensions to the back heel of goalkeepers boots to keep their feet legal on the line

Anything else?

I’ve been saying this all summer, but tactics will inevitably change in favour of attackers. You’re more likely to be awarded a penalty now and more likely to score from it.

We’ve picked the perfect time to change focus. How many of those amazing Dunk & Duffy blocks do you reckon brushed an arm or hand at some point? And VAR should mean more crosses and shots which wasn’t our strong point last season.

Knowing how we analyse every bit of data I’m sure this would have been part of the weighing up process over GP v CH.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bry Nylon · Jun 20, 2019

Pogue Mahone said:
Perhaps it's time for a new pitch marking, 1m in front of the line. The keeper must be on the goal line as the run up starts and must not cross the 1m line at any point during the taking of the penalty.

Or just bin VAR? :shrug:

Pogue Mahone · Jun 20, 2019

Bry Nylon said:
Or just bin VAR?

I think that horse has bolted.

Green Cross Code Man · Jun 20, 2019

Bry Nylon said:
Or just bin VAR?

This is what is needed.

southstandandy · Jun 20, 2019

Pogue Mahone said:
Does the goalkeeper have to be actually on the line, or is 'behind the line' okay? I think that keepers will change their starting position to 50cm behind so that their forward momentum means that they are still legal as the kick is taken if the latter is correct.

Penalty shoot outs are going to finish at midnight if the rules are followed as they were last night.

Perhaps it's time for a new pitch marking, 1m in front of the line. The keeper must be on the goal line as the run up starts and must not cross the 1m line at any point during the taking of the penalty.

The keeper has to have one foot either on or above the line (behind would be ok) according to the new definitions at the point of the ball being struck.

My worry is that based on the stats mentioned earlier I can see teams scoring a penalty and then having to wait 30 seconds before celebrating for a VAR check to be carried out. Will ruin the spontaneity slightly for me.

Berty23 · Jun 20, 2019

I do t get the complaining. Goalies charging down pens has irritated me for years. Reina at Liverpool was a master at being on his six yard line for pens. It is just like the no ball rule in cricket. It is a line, it is easy to check so stay behind it. Goalies will simply change what they do.

I remember when the no picking up back pass rule came in and people worried there would be loads of incidents a game. There were not.

The teams in the World Cup were all told the rules so wtf are they doing?

Easy 10 · Jun 20, 2019

Attackers scooping the ball onto the arm of the defender in the box will, I think, become a deliberate tactic. I've lost count of the number of penalties being awarded now for totally inadvertent handballs. If the ball touches any part of the arm, or is deflected onto it, then 9 times out of 10 its being given now regardless of how far its travelled. Now that they've removed the "intent" aspect, its open season.

If VAR is applied the way it is being used in this World Cup, the way Dunk and Duffy defend with their blocks, we are going to concede shedloads.

Peter Grummit · Jun 20, 2019

Remember that adrenaline rush when the Albion score? It's history, because instead of a glance at the ref or lino whilst celebrating, we're all going to be thinking VAR. Even if it's not used, the moment will be gone. Limbs no more.

PG

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jun 20, 2019

Pogue Mahone said:
Does the goalkeeper have to be actually on the line, or is 'behind the line' okay? I think that keepers will change their starting position to 50cm behind so that their forward momentum means that they are still legal as the kick is taken if the latter is correct.

Penalty shoot outs are going to finish at midnight if the rules are followed as they were last night.

Perhaps it's time for a new pitch marking, 1m in front of the line. The keeper must be on the goal line as the run up starts and must not cross the 1m line at any point during the taking of the penalty.

The Jock women's keeper did that for the retake. So they have obviously practiced this, but she evidently forgot the coaching first time around.

Not sure how forward momentum helps when saving a pen, however. The forward movement in the past was designed to increase the virtual shadow (imagine the penalty spot as a light source) by getting closer to the ball. This is also known as cheating, and VAR will finally put a stop to it. Goalkeepers would be better employed moving left or right (or not at all) in an attempt to legally stop the ball hitting the net. Forward momentum.....cah!

Pogue Mahone · Jun 20, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
The Jock women's keeper did that for the retake. So they have obviously practiced this, but she evidently forgot the coaching first time around.

Not sure how forward momentum helps when saving a pen, however. The forward movement in the past was designed to increase the virtual shadow (imagine the penalty spot as a light source) by getting closer to the ball. This is also known as cheating, and VAR will finally put a stop to it. Goalkeepers would be better employed moving left or right (or not at all) in an attempt to legally stop the ball hitting the net. Forward momentum.....cah!

Harry, try diving to the left or right without going forwards if your creaking frame will allow it

wink

. It cannot be done without also going forwards.

drew · Jun 20, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
The Jock women's keeper did that for the retake. So they have obviously practiced this, but she evidently forgot the coaching first time around.

Not sure how forward momentum helps when saving a pen, however. The forward movement in the past was designed to increase the virtual shadow (imagine the penalty spot as a light source) by getting closer to the ball. This is also known as cheating, and VAR will finally put a stop to it. Goalkeepers would be better employed moving left or right (or not at all) in an attempt to legally stop the ball hitting the net. Forward momentum.....cah!

You're not allowed to start behind the line.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · Jun 20, 2019

Last night's was funny - it was Scotland.

hans kraay fan club · Jun 20, 2019

FWIW, I have no problem with any of the calls that surrounded that Argentine v Scotland penalty. (The timekeeping is another matter...)

It was clearly a penalty in real time - shocking miss from the ref. The VAR righted a wrong.
The Scottish keeper clearly DID move (both feet) forward before it was struck (not FAR, but that isn't the rule). VAR correct to order a retake.
Both sets of players were encroaching the retake, so the decision is 'neutral'. VAR right not to order a second retake.

Players need to, and will, get smarter.

Keepers need to adjust what they do (I'm a keeper and can see it is going to be really difficult, but they'll learn).
In terms of the encroachment, if we concede a penalty, it needs to be utterly drilled into our players NOT to step an inch into the box as it is taken. The other team WILL encroach, and any scored penalty will have to be retaken.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jun 20, 2019

drew said:
You're not allowed to start behind the line.

The Scottish keeper started behind the line for the retake....

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jun 20, 2019

hans kraay fan club said:
FWIW, I have no problem with any of the calls that surrounded that Argentine v Scotland penalty. (The timekeeping is another matter...)

It was clearly a penalty in real time - shocking miss from the ref. The VAR righted a wrong.
The Scottish keeper clearly DID move (both feet) forward before it was struck (not FAR, but that isn't the rule). VAR correct to order a retake.
Both sets of players were encroaching the retake, so the decision is 'neutral'. VAR right not to order a second retake.

Players need to, and will, get smarter.

Keepers need to adjust what they do (I'm a keeper and can see it is going to be really difficult, but they'll learn).
In terms of the encroachment, if we concede a penalty, it needs to be utterly drilled into our players NOT to step an inch into the box as it is taken. The other team WILL encroach, and any scored penalty will have to be retaken.

This.

It isn't ****ing rocket science, is it?

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jun 20, 2019

Pogue Mahone said:
Harry, try diving to the left or right without going forwards if your creaking frame will allow it wink. It cannot be done without also going forwards.

Me? If I threw myself onto a muddy pitch these days I'd be leaving on a stretcher or in a coffin.

These bendy little buggers, though, can easily manage.

One thing I'd like clarified however is this. Encroachment. If the defending players encroach and the attacker fails to score then the pen is retaken. If the attacking players encroach I don't ever recall the ref signaling for a free kick on the edge of the area to the defending team. Why not? I have a feeling that if the attacking team encroaches and the pen is scored then it is retaken. That doesn't seem right....

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