[Travel] Teacher who was staring at her phone and hit by a cyclist win compensation.

vegster · Jun 22, 2019

LamieRobertson said:
Just as a contrarian view I often pedal across on sundays in a respectful manner and still get tutted by at least one individual each time....against that some cyclists pedal far too fast

This sort of thing will always happen, too many conflicting rules and precedents. I have been walking along the path to my allotment several times and never noticed the cyclist behind me weaving left and right trying to keep his balance by getting forward motion while I trudge along. When I realise they are behind me they always smile a
little and are thankful that I step to one side to let them past, I don't have the heart to tell them to look at the signs at the start of the path signifying " Cycling Forbidden "....

I was rather upset once though when a lady came around the blind bend on the path on her bicycle while connected to her dog on a lead on the other side of the path as she swept round the bend, she nearly fell off and she was more than a little embarrassed, hopefully she is now aware of the prospect of pedestrians around a corner on a pedestrian footpath.

Saunders · Jun 22, 2019

Seems to me its an easy earner to walk in front of a cyclist and sue. Its a lot less dangerous than doing it to a car and that didnt stop people when that loophole was open.
I dont shout/sound bell/horn now as it usually results in what happened in this case the zombie wakes up and acts in a totally random way. Having said that this approach isnt fool proof as I had a near miss today when I was letting a zombie cross a major junction head in phone while the man was red and aiming behind them only for them to suddenly realise my presence and stop and take a step backwards. I can see Jay walking laws coming in given the increase in people just stepping into the road without looking.

Billy the Fish · Jun 23, 2019

Saunders said:
I dont shout/sound bell/horn now as it usually results in what happened in this case the zombie wakes up and acts in a totally random way. Having said that this approach isnt fool proof as I had a near miss today when I was letting a zombie cross a major junction head in phone while the man was red and aiming behind them only for them to suddenly realise my presence and stop and take a step backwards. I can see Jay walking laws coming in given the increase in people just stepping into the road without looking.

You're talking as if this isn't what you're supposed to do! This attitude amongst cyclists that you don't need to brake if pedestrians do something unexpected is what caused the whole mess in the first place. It's like that tosser last year who killed someone while riding a bike without brakes and STILL didn't think he'd done anything wrong :facepalm:

Instead of shouting or ringing the horn why don't you pull the brake levers and slow down like you're supposed to :shrug:

Green Cross Code Man · Jun 23, 2019

There's a lot of support, rightly so, for the cyclist.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...-after-she-stepped-out-on-phone-a4173531.html

The Clamp · Jun 23, 2019

LamieRobertson said:
Just as a contrarian view I often pedal across on sundays in a respectful manner and still get tutted by at least one individual each time....against that some cyclists pedal far too fast

I have no problem with cycling on the bridge, plenty of room for all, but I have to bite my tongue when someone dings their bell behind me. I am fully aware of my surroundings and know when a cyclist is coming up behind. If I don't move it will only be because the bridge is busy. They need to slow down and wait until they can get past.
Incidentally we didn't have this problem up til about 5 years ago, everybody seemed to stick to the unspoken rule that you walk or cycle to your left, meaning that spaces regularly open for cyclists to overtake pedestrians or pedestrians to overtake slower walkers. Now people just jumble all over the bridge and pavements meaning pedestrians, cyclists and scootists are continually weaving in and out of each other's way.
Very haphazard, no wonder people get aggravated in busy cities like London.
When people act like this the system breaks down and if the system breaks down, we break down.

Saunders · Jun 23, 2019

Billy the Fish said:
You're talking as if this isn't what you're supposed to do! This attitude amongst cyclists that you don't need to brake if pedestrians do something unexpected is what caused the whole mess in the first place. It's like that tosser last year who killed someone while riding a bike without brakes and STILL didn't think he'd done anything wrong

Instead of shouting or ringing the horn why don't you pull the brake levers and slow down like you're supposed to

We do but you just arent listening at how bad it has become.

It is that bad in town if we stopped everytime someone looked like walking into the road or walked into the road we would be stopping every 10 yards. Bikes dont stop on a sixpence.

Also the "tosser" 18 year old kid did have brakes he had a completely legal fixed brake. He was a stupid kid who had no legal advice and made a mistake but then so did the pedestrian he hit. Again zombie in a phone. If it was a car driver they would not be put in prison for hitting a pedestrian who walked out in front of them head buried in a phone.

Our laws are outdated the government promised a full review of road traffic offences in 2014. Here is the cycling UK article on this very subject after the "tosser" incident. https://www.cyclinguk.org/press-release/governments-review-cycle-laws-masks-failure-tackle-wider-road-safety-review-says

Stat Brother · Jun 23, 2019

Billy the Fish said:
You're talking as if this isn't what you're supposed to do! This attitude amongst cyclists that you don't need to brake if pedestrians do something unexpected is what caused the whole mess in the first place. It's like that tosser last year who killed someone while riding a bike without brakes and STILL didn't think he'd done anything wrong

Instead of shouting or ringing the horn why don't you pull the brake levers and slow down like you're supposed to

Just as a point of order.

Although I know it's very relevant to what you're saying it's still kind of tough to read your one example of an illegal cyclist, who is currently, quite rightly, in jail because of his actions.
When thousands of people are killed or suffering life changing damage from cars while many of the drivers are given a slapped wrist.

As you were.

Edit - Having written that it's occurred to me, if the vehicle in question was a car and not a bike.
Ms Yoga could well be dead and the car driver deemed innocent because of her actions.

I bet an internet search engine could throw up such an example.

Stat Brother · Jun 23, 2019

Saunders said:
We do but you just arent listening at how bad it has become.

It is that bad in town if we stopped everytime someone looked like walking into the road or walked into the road we would be stopping every 10 yards. Bikes dont stop on a sixpence.

Also the "tosser" 18 year old kid did have brakes he had a completely legal fixed brake. He was a stupid kid who had no legal advice and made a mistake but then so did the pedestrian he hit. Again zombie in a phone. If it was a car driver they would not be put in prison for hitting a pedestrian who walked out in front of them head buried in a phone.

Our laws are outdated the government promised a full review of road traffic offences in 2014. Here is the cycling UK article on this very subject after the "tosser" incident. https://www.cyclinguk.org/press-release/governments-review-cycle-laws-masks-failure-tackle-wider-road-safety-review-says

Ha, we both edited in exactly the same thought!

banjo · Jun 23, 2019

Brilliant the way some people think on here. If a cyclist, paying no attention pulled out in front of a car, they’d be a lot on here cheering “Bloody cyclist fault,( which it would be) got what they deserved” But some **** crossing the road without looking gets hit by a cyclist, and the cyclist is to blame.
There are idiots in all mods of transport Cars, bikes and pedestrians. The road systems are outdated, and as someone else mentioned, so is the Highway Code.

Billy the Fish · Jun 23, 2019

Saunders said:
We do but you just arent listening at how bad it has become.

It is that bad in town if we stopped everytime someone looked like walking into the road or walked into the road we would be stopping every 10 yards. Bikes dont stop on a sixpence.

Also the "tosser" 18 year old kid did have brakes he had a completely legal fixed brake. He was a stupid kid who had no legal advice and made a mistake but then so did the pedestrian he hit. Again zombie in a phone. If it was a car driver they would not be put in prison for hitting a pedestrian who walked out in front of them head buried in a phone.

Our laws are outdated the government promised a full review of road traffic offences in 2014. Here is the cycling UK article on this very subject after the "tosser" incident. https://www.cyclinguk.org/press-release/governments-review-cycle-laws-masks-failure-tackle-wider-road-safety-review-says

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/18/cyclist-charlie-alliston-jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian

His bike wasn't legal, he only had a back brake fitted.

I genuinely don't know if it's different on a road bike but I can stop very quickly on my mountain bike using both brakes and shifting my weight back. I accept the riding style is probably different, but I can't accept that in the current case he had time and chose to sound a horn rather pull both levers which he should have a finger on if there's a pavement packed full of pedestrians.

Stat Brother said:
Just as a point of order.

Although I know it's very relevant to what you're saying it's still kind of tough to read your one example of an illegal cyclist, who is currently, quite rightly, in jail because of his actions.
When thousands of people are killed or suffering life changing damage from cars while many of the drivers are given a slapped wrist.

As you were.

Edit - Having written that it's occurred to me, if the vehicle in question was a car and not a bike.
Ms Yoga could well be dead and the car driver deemed innocent because of her actions.

I bet an internet search engine could throw up such an example.

I would always argue that car drivers should be treated the same. If a car is going too fast or not recognising hazards and someone gets hurt or killed they should absolutely face the music in court. If there's double standards going on then it is wrong.

I suspect the difference with most car accidents is that the driver immediately makes an emergency stop rather than beeping the horn without reducing speed.

Creaky · Jun 23, 2019

Saunders said:
We do but you just arent listening at how bad it has become.

It is that bad in town if we stopped everytime someone looked like walking into the road or walked into the road we would be stopping every 10 yards. Bikes dont stop on a sixpence.

Also the "tosser" 18 year old kid did have brakes he had a completely legal fixed brake. He was a stupid kid who had no legal advice and made a mistake but then so did the pedestrian he hit. Again zombie in a phone. If it was a car driver they would not be put in prison for hitting a pedestrian who walked out in front of them head buried in a phone.

Our laws are outdated the government promised a full review of road traffic offences in 2014. Here is the cycling UK article on this very subject after the "tosser" incident. https://www.cyclinguk.org/press-release/governments-review-cycle-laws-masks-failure-tackle-wider-road-safety-review-says

Car drivers are used to “stopping every 10 yards”, why should it be any different for a cyclist. I suspect that it is the effort required to start off again that tempts many cyclists to use their brakes only as a last resort.

As for a car driver not being jailed for hitting a pedestrian who stepped out in front of them then I think you are wrong, especially if the car driver had knowingly gone on the road with no front brakes on the car!

Peteinblack · Jun 23, 2019

I'm 100% with the cyclist on this one, and have donated to the Crowdfund towards his legal costs.

The stupid bimbo steps off the pavement staring at her phone, and then plays the victim. She's lucky it wasn't a car that hit her.

Incidentally, what is it about young women always 'on' their phones - I don't see blokes all constantly texting and yakking non-stop while they're walking, or on public transport, or queuing, or in the pub, but 99% of women under 30 today don't seem capable of doing anything if they're not on their phones - they seem to have a SIM card instead of a brain.

I walk as much as I can, and am getting ******-off seeing women with their faces buried in their phones, and the assumption that everyone else will get out of their way, because they're too dumb to actually look up and check their surroundings.

Personally, I'd like texting-while-walking to be outlawed (like it has been in some US states), but I realise it would probably not be practical or enforceable.

drew · Jun 23, 2019

banjo said:
Brilliant the way some people think on here. If a cyclist, paying no attention pulled out in front of a car, they’d be a lot on here cheering “Bloody cyclist fault,( which it would be) got what they deserved” But some **** crossing the road without looking gets hit by a cyclist, and the cyclist is to blame.
There are idiots in all mods of transport Cars, bikes and pedestrians. The road systems are outdated, and as someone else mentioned, so is the Highway Code.

As a car driver, I still agree with all you are saying. There has, as yet, been no video evidence so people all seem to be speculating as to how quickly he should have reacted. Maybe he regularly shouts at pedestrians who step out and they instantly step back or rush across, depending on how far across the road they were. He did take evasive action but she went the same way. Absolutely astounded she had the gall to make a claim against him. What he should have done is put in an immediate counter claim (I believe he was more seriously hurt than her) and that might have stopped it there and then. Now, the only beneficiaries are the lawyers. They get 100% of the their fees whilst the two individuals each get half.

Costs are currently estimated at £100k so each will have to pay £50k (both, one or possibly neither will have legal expenses insurance although I'm not sure the insurers would have agreed to take on her case!).

As for Charlie Alliston, I might be in a minority in that I thought he was harshly treated by the courts. Another case of a pedestrian not paying attention and just stepping into the road. He may well have, in the immediate aftermath of the crash posted some stuff but it was reported that this was withdrawn when he found out how serious her injuries were and his barrister reported that he had been in touch with the hospital on 9 occasions. It was also reported that he was suffering depression (his dad had died of cancer just over a year prior to the incident) yet the judge disregarded this and gave him 18 months. You hear of people that get less for assault (6 months or a fine is the maximum for common assault)

https://www.lawtonslaw.co.uk/resour...ences-for-common-assault-and-assault-charges/

It was a tragic accident which his actions contributed to but did he really deserve an 18 month prison sentence?

Two similar cases in which a cyclist in one was 100% to blame and in the other 50% to blame, the common factor though being that an adult stepped into the road with out paying attention!!!!

drew · Jun 23, 2019

Creaky said:
Car drivers are used to “stopping every 10 yards”, why should it be any different for a cyclist. I suspect that it is the effort required to start off again that tempts many cyclists to use their brakes only as a last resort.

As for a car driver not being jailed for hitting a pedestrian who stepped out in front of them then I think you are wrong, especially if the car driver had knowingly gone on the road with no front brakes on the car!

I've yet to see a car driver stop every 10 yards because a pedestrian might step out into the road! Ridiculous comparison. Car drivers stop every 10 yrds because of traffic/congestion. The big difference is that a car makes more noise than a bike and some idiots on the pavement rely on their hearing to decide whether to cross or not!!! In this case and that of Aliston, the 'victims' were both not paying attention.

Billy the Fish · Jun 23, 2019

drew said:
I've yet to see a car driver stop every 10 yards because a pedestrian might step out into the road! Ridiculous comparison. Car drivers stop every 10 yrds because of traffic/congestion. The big difference is that a car makes more noise than a bike and some idiots on the pavement rely on their hearing to decide whether to cross or not!!! In this case and that of Aliston, the 'victims' were both not paying attention.

You're a driving instructor, in a hypothetical lesson on a busy lunchtime driving down Burgess Hill one way how quickly do you allow your students to drive? Do you teach them that if someone steps out just beep the horn and hopefully they'll jump out the way in the right direction?

Charlie Allison made no attempt to stop and was riding a bike that want road legal and then still accepted no culpability, all aggravating factors in the sentencing.

Nobby's Whiskers · Jun 23, 2019

The Clamp said:
I have no problem with cycling on the bridge, plenty of room for all, but I have to bite my tongue when someone dings their bell behind me. I am fully aware of my surroundings and know when a cyclist is coming up behind. If I don't move it will only be because the bridge is busy. They need to slow down and wait until they can get past.
Incidentally we didn't have this problem up til about 5 years ago, everybody seemed to stick to the unspoken rule that you walk or cycle to your left, meaning that spaces regularly open for cyclists to overtake pedestrians or pedestrians to overtake slower walkers. Now people just jumble all over the bridge and pavements meaning pedestrians, cyclists and scootists are continually weaving in and out of each other's way.
Very haphazard, no wonder people get aggravated in busy cities like London.
When people act like this the system breaks down and if the system breaks down, we break down.

There are idiots in cars, on bikes and (as people seem to belatedly waking up to) on foot too.

When cycling on cycle routes overseas (the bridge is part of National Cycle Route 2 and was partly funded by Sustrans), that's still what tends to happen, people walk to the right. But then most Europeans seems to respect the idea of a shared route, shared responsibility, equal status, equal respect. It's not much to ask here surely?

The bridge is very wide, but still not wide enough for groups of half a dozen to walk alongside, with dozens of dogs all in a line or rows of pushchairs, or weaving haphazardly in zombie mode. You might be aware of what's going on around you, but they are are either oblivious to the presence of others (on bikes or indeed on foot), or couldn't give a toss. The bell makes no difference frankly, but it's what the Highway code advises so I'm not sure why it upsets you? It's supposed to warn of a presence not a Mr Toad signal of "get out of my way"!

The Clamp · Jun 23, 2019

Nobby's Whiskers said:
There are idiots in cars, on bikes and (as people seem to belatedly waking up to) on foot too.

When cycling on cycle routes overseas (the bridge is part of National Cycle Route 2 and was partly funded by Sustrans), that's still what tends to happen, people walk to the right. But then most Europeans seems to respect the idea of a shared route, shared responsibility, equal status, equal respect. It's not much to ask here surely?

The bridge is very wide, but still not wide enough for groups of half a dozen to walk alongside, with dozens of dogs all in a line or rows of pushchairs, or weaving haphazardly in zombie mode. You might be aware of what's going on around you, but they are are either oblivious to the presence of others (on bikes or indeed on foot), or couldn't give a toss. The bell makes no difference frankly, but it's what the Highway code advises so I'm not sure why it upsets you? It's supposed to warn of a presence not a Mr Toad signal of "get out of my way"!

Why do I need a warning of their presence? I’m not about to be run over and I’m not about to run over them. Wait. Your. Bloody. Turn.

Horses Arse · Jun 23, 2019

Just at the end of a fantastic but gruelling cycling and camping trip in south Wales. Hills were a bloody killer but the motorists were bloody fantastic. Considerate and friendly throughout. Back to London again tomorrow though with aggressive ignorant twats who hate anyone not stuck in a traffic jam.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

drew · Jun 24, 2019

Billy the Fish said:
You're a driving instructor, in a hypothetical lesson on a busy lunchtime driving down Burgess Hill one way how quickly do you allow your students to drive? Do you teach them that if someone steps out just beep the horn and hopefully they'll jump out the way in the right direction?

Charlie Allison made no attempt to stop and was riding a bike that want road legal and then still accepted no culpability, all aggravating factors in the sentencing.

In a busy street you don't drive at 30 but then again, if you are at 20, you're still faster than the bike. You teach them to look out for people not paying attention. With regard to Alliston, he was on a bike that was illegal because of no front brake, accepted. As far as I can tell, he thought she was culpable because she walked out into a road without looking so he's not going to change that view. The judge decided he showed no remorse although his defence barrister submitted evidence to the contrary. The judge chose not to believe it.

Notwithstanding all that, I'm not saying he was blameless but that he was, compared to others, eg someone who deliberately goes out to assault someone, treated harshly.

Worried Man Blues · Jun 24, 2019

When electric cars come in and are absolutely silent there will be a few more knocked over.

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[Travel] Teacher who was staring at her phone and hit by a cyclist win compensation.

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