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[Politics] Corbyn backing the other side..........again



The Merry Prankster

The Merry Prankster

Pactum serva
Aug 19, 2006
5,577
Shoreham Beach
Lower West Stander said:
In your world has he ever done anything wrong?

And, don’t tell me, Maduro is a great guy right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Of course he's done things wrong but yes I like him. I like that he has time for people, I like that he is consistent, I like that he never resorts to personal attacks despite massive provocation. So yes as a man I find he has some admirable qualities. However, despite the best efforts of right wing politicians and the media to make it all about Corbyn, what I really like are Labours' vision and policies as outlined in the manifesto.

A lot of Maduro's fellow countrymen think he's a great guy, the Trump administration (if we're still calling it that) don't. I guess its who's narrative you give weight to. To be honest I find it too confused to have a firm opinion.
 




The Merry Prankster

The Merry Prankster

Pactum serva
Aug 19, 2006
5,577
Shoreham Beach
beorhthelm said:
may have budgeted for the spending, but it relied on a massive 250bn debt being issued.
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That is separate from the costed manifesto and is for capital projects. It is investment in housing etc that produces assets. The Tories, for comparisons sake, have borrowed £870 bn since 2010 and have precisely zip to show for it.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
The Merry Prankster said:
That is separate from the costed manifesto and is for capital projects. It is investment in housing etc that produces assets. The Tories, for comparisons sake, have borrowed £870 bn since 2010 and have precisely zip to show for it.
Click to expand...

not exactly "zip", its paid for shortfall for spending on everything. i know, its mismanagement of the economy. do you want more austerity or more taxes to balance the budget?
 








B

BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,356
The Merry Prankster said:
Of course he's done things wrong but yes I like him. I like that he has time for people, I like that he is consistent, I like that he never resorts to personal attacks despite massive provocation. So yes as a man I find he has some admirable qualities. However, despite the best efforts of right wing politicians and the media to make it all about Corbyn, what I really like are Labours' vision and policies as outlined in the manifesto.

A lot of Maduro's fellow countrymen think he's a great guy, the Trump administration (if we're still calling it that) don't. I guess its who's narrative you give weight to. To be honest I find it too confused to have a firm opinion.
Click to expand...

Hmm, very convenient to be 'confused' about Maduro's regime, isn't it?
You just can't bring yourself to criticise one of Corbyn and McDonnell's 'socialist ideals gone severely wrong' scenarios , can you!
 


M

Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
9,805
saaf of the water
The Merry Prankster said:
He spoke at more remain events than any other politician during the referendum. So your evidence for this would be?
Click to expand...


Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.

Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.

Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.

In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.

Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).

In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)

Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.

In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.

Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.

The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.

In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.

Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.

During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.

In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.

In 2018, Jeremy Corbyn said he would try to make Brexit go ahead even if Labour won a general election before it happened.

In February 2019, Jeremy Corbyn set out how he was ready to back Theresa May’s Brexit deal.

In March 2019, writing in the Daily Mirror, Jeremy Corbyn repeated his support for Brexit, saying, “I will continue to reach out to get a decent Brexit deal”.



You're right - whether you like him or not, Corbyn sticks with his principles - that's why a lot of people like him.

But don't try and pretend he's anything other than a massive Euro-sceptic - why hasn't he come out and supported what Tom Watson said the other day?
 


The Merry Prankster

The Merry Prankster

Pactum serva
Aug 19, 2006
5,577
Shoreham Beach
Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.

Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.

Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.

In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.

Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).

In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)

Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.

In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.

Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.

The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.

In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.

Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.

During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.

In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.

In 2018, Jeremy Corbyn said he would try to make Brexit go ahead even if Labour won a general election before it happened.

In February 2019, Jeremy Corbyn set out how he was ready to back Theresa May’s Brexit deal.

In March 2019, writing in the Daily Mirror, Jeremy Corbyn repeated his support for Brexit, saying, “I will continue to reach out to get a decent Brexit deal”.



You're right - whether you like him or not, Corbyn sticks with his principles - that's why a lot of people like him.

But don't try and pretend he's anything other than a massive Euro-sceptic - why hasn't he come out and supported what Tom Watson said the other day?
Click to expand...

You may be right that if he wasn't leader he'd be a leaver. I don't know that and neither do you. He has said he voted remain and would do so again, as has John McDonnell.

Labour, to date, has always been clear that, although not agreeing with it, they would honour the democratic result of the referendum, on the best possible terms it could get. That is a reasonable position even if you disagree with it. The Party's actions since 2016 have back that up.

As someone who clearly follows politics I'm sure you know that he doesn't follow Tom Watson's lead as a) Tom Watson doesn't have Corbyns best interests at heart, ever and b) it would disenfranchise 17.4 m people, many of them labour voters with a fair chance of not helping the situation. The people clamouring for a second referendum all assume they are going to win it, leavers will accept this and things will go back to normal. Corbyn thinks that unlikely and is not willing to turn his back on the leavers (who lets remember won) for such a pointless exercise.

I suspect, unless the Tories commit hard kari, that eventually, in order to stop a no deal Brexit, he may have to support some kind of vote but I absolutely understand why he doesn't want to (yet) PLUS he doesn't make Labour policy on this, the Conference does.

The silver lining is that if Labour do back one it will be the death knell for Tom Watson (60+ % leave constituency)
 






The Merry Prankster

The Merry Prankster

Pactum serva
Aug 19, 2006
5,577
Shoreham Beach
BLOCK F said:
Hmm, very convenient to be 'confused' about Maduro's regime, isn't it?
You just can't bring yourself to criticise one of Corbyn and McDonnell's 'socialist ideals gone severely wrong' scenarios , can you!
Click to expand...


I can quite easily and have composed motions critical of his position on some things. However, and I am upset to say this, I no longer trust reporting via MSM.

I know that can sound a bit tin foil hat but compare for example the coverage of protests in HK (all over the media) with coverage of the Gilets-jaunes protests in neighbouring France which has been going on for over six months, has a rising death toll, lost hands and eyes of protesters, shocking levels of police brutality and in the media - little to nothing.

I've seen for example - pictures of anti Maduro protests in the papers but then photos of larger pro Maduro rallies, held at the same time, on the internet.

How would Maduro have faired without US interference? How extensive was that interference? It depends who you believe. I don't know, hence my reluctance to take a stand either way.
 


The Merry Prankster

The Merry Prankster

Pactum serva
Aug 19, 2006
5,577
Shoreham Beach
Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
Actually his voting record suggest we do.
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No we don't because things have changed dramatically in the last 3 years and in all that time he's been pro. If leaving the EU means victory for disaster capitalism, lose of workers right, lowering of pretty much every standard going, the end of the NHS etc., etc. I suspect he may have had a re think. I know lots of lefties who have. They might not love the EU but they see it as the least most option currently
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,310
The Merry Prankster said:
I've seen for example - pictures of anti Maduro protests in the papers but then photos of larger pro Maduro rallies, held at the same time, on the internet.
Click to expand...

tends to happen in police states, when you get a knock on the door late at night if you are anti-government.
 


B

BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,356
The Merry Prankster said:
I can quite easily and have composed motions critical of his position on some things. However, and I am upset to say this, I no longer trust reporting via MSM.

I know that can sound a bit tin foil hat but compare for example the coverage of protests in HK (all over the media) with coverage of the Gilets-jaunes protests in neighbouring France which has been going on for over six months, has a rising death toll, lost hands and eyes of protesters, shocking levels of police brutality and in the media - little to nothing.

I've seen for example - pictures of anti Maduro protests in the papers but then photos of larger pro Maduro rallies, held at the same time, on the internet.

How would Maduro have faired without US interference? How extensive was that interference? It depends who you believe. I don't know, hence my reluctance to take a stand either way.
Click to expand...

My last words on the subject as I have to go out....... whatever view you take, there can be no denying that the country is in a sad, serious mess.
 


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
The nice Mr. Johson will give us our ball back,but the horrible Cor-Bin would puncture it,then make us send it to Venezuela for fuel.
 




Lower West Stander

Lower West Stander

Well-known member
Mar 25, 2012
4,753
Back in Sussex
The Merry Prankster said:
I can quite easily and have composed motions critical of his position on some things. However, and I am upset to say this, I no longer trust reporting via MSM.

I know that can sound a bit tin foil hat but compare for example the coverage of protests in HK (all over the media) with coverage of the Gilets-jaunes protests in neighbouring France which has been going on for over six months, has a rising death toll, lost hands and eyes of protesters, shocking levels of police brutality and in the media - little to nothing.

I've seen for example - pictures of anti Maduro protests in the papers but then photos of larger pro Maduro rallies, held at the same time, on the internet.

How would Maduro have faired without US interference? How extensive was that interference? It depends who you believe. I don't know, hence my reluctance to take a stand either way.
Click to expand...

That is an unreal post.

How old are you by the way?
 














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