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[Other Sport] Vettel
- Thread starter Juan Albion
- Start date
Jimmehh
Well-known member
Vettel pulled his car back to Parc Ferme - that’s why he moved it back. As long as he put his car in parc ferme with the rest of the grid (at the entrance to the pits) and got himself weighed (which he did) he cannot be punished... however, it was very petty and childish, but it definitely made the end of the race a lot more enjoyable than usual when I switch it off.
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blue-shifted
Banned
A very harsh penalty on Vettel, I don't really see how there's enough there to rebut the presumption that he was just trying to control the car after coming back on track over the grass.
However, Vettel does come across that he is always on the edge of some Kevin Keegan style personal implosion bought on by the pressure of trying to compete with a superior rival. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton was in the lead, Hamilton would have won the race because he wouldn't have made the pressure induced mistake that Vettel did
However, Vettel does come across that he is always on the edge of some Kevin Keegan style personal implosion bought on by the pressure of trying to compete with a superior rival. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton was in the lead, Hamilton would have won the race because he wouldn't have made the pressure induced mistake that Vettel did
Gritt23
New member
When that happens down the field everyone takes the penalty on the chin. But because it's the front of the race, and it's Ferrari, there's a bit sh*tstorm and Vettel just shows his petulance. I think Vettel was especially hacked off because he knew it was HIS MISTAKE that caused it. A bit of a childish strop followed. I bet Mark Webber was absolutely wetting himself with laughter.
Hamilton looks to have this title wrapped up already, as Ferrari just can't catch up with the Mercedes development, Bottas brief purple patch of form has gone, and Vettel is starting to crack under pressure rather regularly. So I wasn't desperate for Lewis to win this race, I wasn't screaming at the telly through a biased perspective, but I fully expected a penalty for that.
harsh or not, I think the stewards have been pretty consistent on punishing a driver who leaves the track and retains his track position either due to having taken a shorter route, or because they impeded the driver behind on their return to the track. I think the majority of the calls from the commentary box that this was unfair came from a desire to see Ferrari win a race and have a more competitive Championship. Sorry, but you can't interpret the rules differently for that reason.
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Hamilton looks to have this title wrapped up already, as Ferrari just can't catch up with the Mercedes development, Bottas brief purple patch of form has gone, and Vettel is starting to crack under pressure rather regularly. So I wasn't desperate for Lewis to win this race, I wasn't screaming at the telly through a biased perspective, but I fully expected a penalty for that.
harsh or not, I think the stewards have been pretty consistent on punishing a driver who leaves the track and retains his track position either due to having taken a shorter route, or because they impeded the driver behind on their return to the track. I think the majority of the calls from the commentary box that this was unfair came from a desire to see Ferrari win a race and have a more competitive Championship. Sorry, but you can't interpret the rules differently for that reason.
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Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
I won't argue about his Gus like ego, but a man with little driving talent, really ? He has won the Formula 1 World Championship on four occasions!
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
That's how I read it. The stewards have data the teams don't want released, they will know if Vettel lifted or not. If he didn't, then got to agree with the penalty that he didn't look to rejoin the track safely and not only prevented another car getting passed, but also risked a bad accident.
For me, it was only the skill of Hamilton as a driver that prevented that being a huge accident into the wall.
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Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
Yeah Hamilton’s reflexes were astonishing. Decision making at speed that defies belief, has to be instinctive
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
As said above, you have to remember the stewards have the telemetry data. They will know if he didn't lift or attempt to control his car more safely than he did.
All very well Vettel saying 'what else was I supposed to do', well had Hamilton not shown anticipation and car control in braking hard to avoid the collision, he can rightly say 'I did everything I could do to avoid an accident, did Vettel?' If the data shows Vettel didn't brake or attempt to lift, then I don't think you can say he did.
Personally, I think what the stewards knew from the data is that Vettel left the track and under great pressure just continued to floor it in desperation to stay in front. I suspect that is why the penalty was given. We won't know because they won't release that data.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Yeah, and maturity. My suspicion would be a mid-20s Hamilton would have been smashed into the wall because he simply would have refused to have been denied the lead and just gone for the gap anyway. 34 year old Hamilton, experienced, calculating, knew 2nd was still a very good result, and he'd have chances to get passed again. Admirable that he continued to fight Vettel till the end. I can think of many drivers like Prost would have just stationed themselves 3 seconds behind and coasted to the win.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
Watching Button last night reminded me of a young Hamilton at the Canadian GP trying to overtake Button, his team mate in a ran lashed race, that Button won, in such a way that it prompted Button to come on the radio incredulously saying “What the hell was Lewis thinking” (or words to that effect)
He has matured dramatically since he went to Mercedes, no doubt much influenced by Niki Lauda.
He was more Verstappen like and you can see how he is also more considered now, with more experience.
blue-shifted
Banned
But what will the telemetry tell the Stewards? Vettel can’t brake or turn hardly at all until his whole car is off the grass. He then comes onto the track at an angle at high speed and out of control, then factor in human reaction times and to me it’s plausible he was acting purely out of self preservation rather than lead preservation
There’s also a good chance that Vettel was acting to protect the lead rather than to control the car. Fair play to the Stewards though for making a call that size.
There’s also a good chance that Vettel was acting to protect the lead rather than to control the car. Fair play to the Stewards though for making a call that size.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
The telemetry will show whether he lifted or not, the moment he loses control/leaves the track he should immediately at the very least lifted the throttle completely. I think that would be a defining factor in deciding whether he had no other choice and did the best he could as safely as he could, or whether he acted purely to stay in the lead but endangered another driver.
Surrey Seagull
New member
At the end of the day, it was Vettel's error which caused him to go off the track in the 1st place. Had he not done that, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He's only got himself to blame.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
I’m actually more surprised that, having been informed of the penalty, he didn’t put it into the wall as the red mist descended. He was clearly thinking more about telling the world that he had done all he could to avoid a collision than completing the race.
I still think it was a harsh decision but only Vettel and the stewards have enough information to know if it really was harsh.
Edit: from the link above, it appears he is bang to rights.
I still think it was a harsh decision but only Vettel and the stewards have enough information to know if it really was harsh.
Edit: from the link above, it appears he is bang to rights.
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As you say Hamilton had to brake to avoid a crash, unsafe, end-of.
Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
If this same incident had happened 10 years ago, Hamilton would not have lifted and Vettel would have collected him, probably putting both drivers out of the race.
The stewards would then have given Vettel a 10-place grid penalty for the next race for causing a collision.
At many other circuits, with greater run off area, Hamilton would have just driven round Vettel and into the lead.
Maybe a bit harsh, but not unfair in the circumstances.
Exemplary petulance displayed should have a point deduction too.
The stewards would then have given Vettel a 10-place grid penalty for the next race for causing a collision.
At many other circuits, with greater run off area, Hamilton would have just driven round Vettel and into the lead.
Maybe a bit harsh, but not unfair in the circumstances.
Exemplary petulance displayed should have a point deduction too.
Probably fortunate that the two drivers involved are as good as they are, had that been (e.g.) Albon vs Norris it would probably have ended up with two cars pointing the wrong way, carbon fibre all over the track and possibly fisticuffs.
Vettel acting like a dick at the end was hilarious, but he was still acting like a dick. And TBH it just shows once again Vettel isn't a proper racer, he can only win in a car which is miles in front.
Vettel acting like a dick at the end was hilarious, but he was still acting like a dick. And TBH it just shows once again Vettel isn't a proper racer, he can only win in a car which is miles in front.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
But Vettel drives for Ferrari so gets away with so much more. His petulance at Baku a couple of years ago behind the safety car when he thought Hamilton had brake tested him was unbelievable. He pulled up alongside Hamilton and deliberately drove into him banging wheels. Should have been black flagged but he got a few seconds penalty.
Vettel has anger management issues, makes it all more interesting though.