[Football] The EFL have introduced the ‘Rooney rule’

Seagull122 · Jun 9, 2019

The English Football League has made it policy that clubs must interview at least one black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) candidate when searching for a new first-team manager.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48555148

In my opinion this is ridiculous, as someone who fits into the BAME category I still don’t understand it. Potential candidates should be picked based on their experience and skill, this is just a waste of time, BAME candidates may be going to an interview full well knowing they’re not going to get the job, and what if no BAME managers apply?

PILTDOWN MAN · Jun 9, 2019

Seagull122 said:
The English Football League has made it policy that clubs must interview at least one black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) candidate when searching for a new first-team manager.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48555148

In my opinion this is ridiculous, as someone who fits into the BAME category I still don’t understand it. Potential candidates should be picked based on their experience and skill, this is just a waste of time, BAME candidates may be going to an interview full well knowing they’re not going to get the job, and what if no BAME managers apply?

Discrimination is so wrong, irrelevant even if it’s deemed positive.

Stat Brother · Jun 9, 2019

Seagull122 said:
The English Football League has made it policy that clubs must interview at least one black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) candidate when searching for a new first-team manager.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48555148

In my opinion this is ridiculous, as someone who fits into the BAME category I still don’t understand it. Potential candidates should be picked based on their experience and skill, this is just a waste of time, BAME candidates may be going to an interview full well knowing they’re not going to get the job, and what if no BAME managers apply?

Yeah you're quite right, nobody has been denied a managerial job in football just because they are a BAME candidate.
It's just a coincidence that over 90% of all managers are white.

Icy Gull · Jun 9, 2019

Stat Brother said:
Yeah you're quite right, nobody has been denied a managerial job in football just because they are a BAME candidate.
It's just a coincidence that over 90% of all managers are white.

OK so which BAME manager has been dismissed for any other reason than the chairman thought a change was necessary?

Or to put it another way which BAME manager has not had the support that a white manager would have got?

I find it really hard to believe that they are not getting interviewed because of their colour. Accept I may be being naive about this, but which one has shown that he should be getting a better job or should have been interviewed to get one?

Are they really not even getting an interview because they are BAME?

Wilko · Jun 9, 2019

It is a tough one, I totally get the reason behind but it could actually cause more issues. What if a BAME manager does not apply? You then have the issue of BAME managers applying and not getting the job which will cause further questioning and scrutiny. If the BAME manager does get the job then it will open the question of whether he got it simply due to positive discrimination.

tiberious · Jun 9, 2019

Stat Brother said:
Yeah you're quite right, nobody has been denied a managerial job in football just because they are a BAME candidate.
It's just a coincidence that over 90% of all managers are white.

Yes but they are talking BAME Black and Minority Ethnic, if you look at what that means when used by Police for stop and search and Gov statistics it means not white British..so white Irish is in fact BAME, therefore if we use this then there is a majority of BAME managers in the top leagues in the country actually saying is that Black and Asian managers are under represented in these Divisions. A genuine question does any of the four Leagues in England have an Asian manager ?

Seagull122 · Jun 9, 2019

Stat Brother said:
Yeah you're quite right, nobody has been denied a managerial job in football just because they are a BAME candidate.
It's just a coincidence that over 90% of all managers are white.

I never said that BAME candidates haven’t been discriminated against, I just said that this isn’t the solution, forcing a club to interview a BAME manager won’t have an effect, clubs who were looking at appointing a BAME manager (because they’re the best possible candidate) would’ve offered them an interview anyway.

Stat Brother · Jun 9, 2019

Icy Gull said:
OK so which BAME manager has been dismissed for any other reason than the chairman thought a change was necessary?

Or to put it another way which BAME manager has not had the support that a white manager would have got?

I find it really hard to believe that they are not getting interviewed because of their colour. Accept I may be being naive about this, but which one has shown that he should be getting a better job or should have been interviewed to get one?

There's a bazillion articles, facts figures, spreadsheets that clearly document what can be politely called an unconscious bias.

Obviously in an ideal world a Rooney Rule is completely unnecessary.
Fingers crossed in a far from ideal world a Rooney Rule would become obsolete.

But there's no denying the fact that BAME managers are underrepresented when looking at the pool of talent from which new managers are selected.

Icy Gull · Jun 9, 2019

Stat Brother said:
There's a bazillion articles, facts figures, spreadsheets that clearly document what can be politely called an unconscious bias.

Obviously in an ideal world a Rooney Rule is completely unnecessary.
Fingers crossed in a fair from ideal world a Rooney Rule would become obsolete.

But there's no denying the fact that BAME managers are underrepresented when looking at the pool of talent from which new managers are selected.

OK, so which of the ones that have got a job have been held back from better jobs because of it?

Genuine question because I am really struggling to think of one.

Knocky's Nose · Jun 9, 2019

Stat Brother said:
It's just a coincidence that over 90% of all managers are white.

Question... Has anyone ever researched how many people who fall into the 'BAME' category, in football, actually want to become a manager? Are we talking 50% of all managerial posts (for instance) are being chased by BAME candidates, and only 10% of them get the job (then there's a problem - they're either shite, or they're being discriminated against) - or is it simply that there aren't that many Black and Minority Ethnic people wanting the jobs in comparison to non-BAME candidates?

Before you all light your torches, it's a genuine and serious question. Are we addressing a problem with the racism card when it's simply a numbers thing?

Acker79 · Jun 9, 2019

Seagull122 said:
The English Football League has made it policy that clubs must interview at least one black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) candidate when searching for a new first-team manager.

But how many Black asian and ethnic minority people are there who want to be come football managers? Would be much more workable to have Black, Asian, or ethnic moinority candidates. Finding one person that fits all three criteria would just be a nightmare..

Stat Brother · Jun 9, 2019

Icy Gull said:
OK, so which of the ones that have got a job have been held back from better jobs because of it?

Genuine question because I am really struggling to think of one.

You're putting the cart before the horse.

How many BAME candidates have been excluded from jobs, in the first place?

As a white ex-England player, you are twice as likely to end up in a managerial job as your black counterpart. Since 1990, just five black ex-England players have gone into management, under the definition listed above. You’d probably struggle to name all of them, given that only one of them is still in a job and only one of them made it as far as the Premier League (where he lasted six months).

Oh, and you know what else? The gap is widening. Since 2000, the proportion of black footballers playing for England has risen, but while 25 per cent of white players have been given a managerial job since retirement, that drops to just 10 per cent for black players. And if you are an aspiring black English manager with a stellar playing career behind you, you’d better get a move on: no black England footballer has ever been offered his first managerial job more than a year after retirement.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ble-data-football-jonathan-liew-a8379111.html

Bakero · Jun 9, 2019

Seagull122 said:
The English Football League has made it policy that clubs must interview at least one black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) candidate when searching for a new first-team manager.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48555148

In my opinion this is ridiculous, as someone who fits into the BAME category I still don’t understand it. Potential candidates should be picked based on their experience and skill, this is just a waste of time, BAME candidates may be going to an interview full well knowing they’re not going to get the job, and what if no BAME managers apply?

Then none get interviewed.

dejavuatbtn · Jun 9, 2019

Does this mean that clubs cannot just appoint someone to the job? Do they have to go through an interview process in order to be compliant?

Icy Gull · Jun 9, 2019

Stat Brother said:
You're putting the cart before the horse.

How many BAME candidates have been excluded from jobs, in the first place?

As a white ex-England player, you are twice as likely to end up in a managerial job as your black counterpart. Since 1990, just five black ex-England players have gone into management, under the definition listed above. You’d probably struggle to name all of them, given that only one of them is still in a job and only one of them made it as far as the Premier League (where he lasted six months).

Oh, and you know what else? The gap is widening. Since 2000, the proportion of black footballers playing for England has risen, but while 25 per cent of white players have been given a managerial job since retirement, that drops to just 10 per cent for black players. And if you are an aspiring black English manager with a stellar playing career behind you, you’d better get a move on: no black England footballer has ever been offered his first managerial job more than a year after retirement.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ble-data-football-jonathan-liew-a8379111.html

What job was Sol Campbell offered in his first year after retirement? I only ask this because he is one of the more outspoken BAME’s on this?

Chicken Run · Jun 9, 2019

Have we got any BAME Mods, if not as a white middle class snowflake I demand one otherwise I’m going to continue pissing my bed sheets on behalf potential BAME Mods.

Palacefinder General · Jun 9, 2019

I can see a few white managers putting on black face makeup and trying out for this. Pardew sitting there in the interview looking like a black and white minstrel and doing jazz hands.

Acker79 · Jun 9, 2019

Icy Gull said:
What job was Sol Campbell offered in his first year after retirement? I only ask this because he is one of the more outspoken BAME’s on this?

That article noting "no black England footballer has ever been offered his first managerial job more than a year after retirement" was written in June 2018. Campbell got the Macclefield Job November 2018

Icy Gull · Jun 9, 2019

Acker79 said:
That article noting "no black England footballer has ever been offered his first managerial job more than a year after retirement" was written in June 2018. Campbell got the Macclefield Job November 2018

Proving there is an exception to every rule :wink:

Acker79 · Jun 9, 2019

Icy Gull said:
Proving there is an exception to every rule

And it only took 42 years (since the Laurie Cunningham because the first black player to play for England).

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