[Misc] Why isn’t there a straight Pride?

Bakero · Jun 8, 2019

dingodan said:
Wow. Straight men don't need a pride event, since they are celebrated, protected and privileged .

Said the person who just called them whingeing, resentful, and spiteful based at least in part on their sexuality.

Lack of self awareness much?

The way I see it, it's this simple. People shouldn't give two flying ****s what color, race, gender or sexuality you are. You can help by realizing that it starts with you not defining yourself by those things either. Gay/Black/Female or whatever pride effectively says, "I am part of a group, and this is that group, and this group should be celebrated", but dividing people into groups is the basis of discrimination. Your rights and the dignity you are entitled to come from the fact that you are a human being, and an individual.

You don't fight against prejudice by "celebrating" your group. You fight it by recognizing that groups don't matter at all. No shame in your color, race, gender or sexuality, but no pride in it either.

Because it's irrelevant.

It would be lovely if it was irrelevant, wouldn't it?

nickbrighton · Jun 8, 2019

dingodan said:
The way I see it, it's this simple. People shouldn't give two flying ****s what color, race, gender or sexuality you are. You can help by realizing that it starts with you not defining yourself by those things either. Gay/Black/Female or whatever pride effectively says, "I am part of a group, and this is that group, and this group should be celebrated", but dividing people into groups is the basis of discrimination. Your rights and the dignity you are entitled to come from the fact that you are a human being, and an individual.

You don't fight against prejudice by "celebrating" your group. You fight it by recognizing that groups don't matter at all. No shame in your color, race, gender or sexuality, but no pride in it either.

Because it's irrelevant.

You are quiet right in one respect- it SHOULDN'T matter, but unfortunately it DOES, and it matters simply because heterosexual people all over the planet still oppress, beat, and murder LGBTQ people. In 8 countries being gay is punishable by DEATH and this punishment is carried out. 5 Gay people were beheaded in Saudi Arabia within the last two weeks. In London a gay couple were beaten up by a group of 15-18 year olds because they wouldn't "perform" for them. Gay people have different rights than straight people all over the world - we are verbally and physically attacked and discriminated against on a daily basis in THIS country. If all the hetrosexual people stopped making us feel different, perhaps we wouldn't need to ASK them to stop doing it, we wouldn't need to have Pride.

Sussex Nomad · Jun 8, 2019

Knocky's Nose said:
... - but isn't freedom of speech a 'thing' these days?

Ummm... nah

brightn'ove · Jun 8, 2019

dingodan said:
Wow. Straight men don't need a pride event, since they are celebrated, protected and privileged .

Said the person who just called them whingeing, resentful, and spiteful based at least in part on their sexuality.

Lack of self awareness much?

The way I see it, it's this simple. People shouldn't give two flying ****s what color, race, gender or sexuality you are. You can help by realizing that it starts with you not defining yourself by those things either. Gay/Black/Female or whatever pride effectively says, "I am part of a group, and this is that group, and this group should be celebrated", but dividing people into groups is the basis of discrimination. Your rights and the dignity you are entitled to come from the fact that you are a human being, and an individual.

You don't fight against prejudice by "celebrating" your group. You fight it by recognizing that groups don't matter at all. No shame in your color, race, gender or sexuality, but no pride in it either.

Because it's irrelevant.

So long as people are killed or harmed for any of those things, it is not irrelevant.

Eeyore · Jun 8, 2019

dingodan said:
Wow. Straight men don't need a pride event, since they are celebrated, protected and privileged .

Said the person who just called them whingeing, resentful, and spiteful based at least in part on their sexuality.

Lack of self awareness much?

The way I see it, it's this simple. People shouldn't give two flying ****s what color, race, gender or sexuality you are. You can help by realizing that it starts with you not defining yourself by those things either. Gay/Black/Female or whatever pride effectively says, "I am part of a group, and this is that group, and this group should be celebrated", but dividing people into groups is the basis of discrimination. Your rights and the dignity you are entitled to come from the fact that you are a human being, and an individual.

You don't fight against prejudice by "celebrating" your group. You fight it by recognizing that groups don't matter at all. No shame in your color, race, gender or sexuality, but no pride in it either.

Because it's irrelevant.

Agreed.

What you in fact do is impute a sense of pride that conquers the self doubt and the feelings of inferiority sending a message that you will not be marginal or outcast.

And that is why it is called 'Pride'. Thus it becomes a... celebration.

Only the message still hasn't reached a lot of people on this planet.

The Clamp · Jun 8, 2019

The_Viper said:
Lol no, freedom of speech hasn't been a thing for quite a while.

He writes on an international message board with threads dedicated to Brexit, gay rights, Tommy Robinson, Corbyn, Farage etc. Who are enjoying the loudest platform of their lives in every single media outlet.
No, nowhere to express your opinion anywhere.

You are mistaking people opposing your views for people trying to silence you. Don’t be so sensitive.

Eeyore · Jun 8, 2019

Funny how many of the folk who support this idea or rally against the idea of Pride are known to hold strong views on immigrants and similar debates that come from a certain strand of politics.

It's like you know who's going to turn up here.

The Clamp · Jun 8, 2019

brightn'ove said:
So long as people are killed or harmed for any of those things, it is not irrelevant.

White, middle aged, heterosexual males in the West may view sexuality as irrelevant. There are many groups across the globe to whom it is very relevant.
Try and put yourself in someone else’s shoes and see why it may be important to them.

Edit: apologies, I’ve quoted the wrong person here.

Hastings gull · Jun 8, 2019

midnight_rendezvous said:
Why straight people don't need ‘Straight Pride’.

Your sexuality isn't criminalised in 72 countries
Your sexuality isn't punishable by death in 8 countries
You've never had to fight for the right to marry
You've never been (legally) fired or evicted for your sexuality

THE END

I always wonder about folk who end their post with End of or the End. I wonder if in reality they are as arrogant as they sound. Whilst I would not quibble with your figures and agree that this situation is a disgrace, it is hardly either- or :you can have whatever pride you want and still lament the intolerance shown to gay people. And of course it is ironic that the very person who quotes intolerance around the world, ends his post dismissing any other opinion.

Hastings gull · Jun 8, 2019

nickbrighton said:
You are quiet right in one respect- it SHOULDN'T matter, but unfortunately it DOES, and it matters simply because heterosexual people all over the planet still oppress, beat, and murder LGBTQ people. In 8 countries being gay is punishable by DEATH and this punishment is carried out. 5 Gay people were beheaded in Saudi Arabia within the last two weeks. In London a gay couple were beaten up by a group of 15-18 year olds because they wouldn't "perform" for them. Gay people have different rights than straight people all over the world - we are verbally and physically attacked and discriminated against on a daily basis in THIS country. If all the hetrosexual people stopped making us feel different, perhaps we wouldn't need to ASK them to stop doing it, we wouldn't need to have Pride.

So all the heterosexual people make you feel different, you say. Whilst I don't doubt that gay folk do suffer abuse, I think you are somewhat exaggerating to make your very valid point.

nickbrighton · Jun 8, 2019

Hastings gull said:
So all the heterosexual people make you feel different, you say. Whilst I don't doubt that gay folk do suffer abuse, I think you are somewhat exaggerating to make your very valid point.

how can you say exaggerating- its all over the news about the gay couple on the bus, homophobic attacks are a daily occurrence across the country, people ARE executed in Saudi, in Iran, not ONE thing i have said is exaggerated, and therein lays the issue-the perception that all is fine and dandy -IT ISNT.

Jim Van Winkle · Jun 8, 2019

When I hear ‘straight pride’ I think of a load of white guys dressed in cargo shorts, wearing MAGA hats, a white lives matter t’shirt and white socks with sandals. They will obviously be drinking Bud-light and listening to a lot of Dire Straits.

Hastings gull · Jun 8, 2019

nickbrighton said:
how can you say exaggerating- its all over the news about the gay couple on the bus, homophobic attacks are a daily occurrence across the country, people ARE executed in Saudi, in Iran, not ONE thing i have said is exaggerated, and therein lays the issue-the perception that all is fine and dandy -IT ISNT.

Of course I have heard of all the things you quote, and they are dreadful, and I would imagine that no one thinks all is fine and dandy -the latest incident with the two women illustrates this fully. But the poster talked of all straight people and in this country, there is also huge tolerance to people of all persuasions. It is not 100%, agreed, but the vast majority accept people being gay without a problem.

The Clamp · Jun 8, 2019

Hastings gull said:
Of course I have heard of all the things you quote, and they are dreadful, and I would imagine that no one thinks all is fine and dandy -the latest incident with the two women illustrates this fully. But the poster talked of all straight people and in this country, there is also huge tolerance to people of all persuasions. It is not 100%, agreed, but the vast majority accept people being gay without a problem.

Cool. Let’s celebrate that with a parade and a party.

midnight_rendezvous · Jun 8, 2019

Hastings gull said:
I always wonder about folk who end their post with End of or the End. I wonder if in reality they are as arrogant as they sound. Whilst I would not quibble with your figures and agree that this situation is a disgrace, it is hardly either- or :you can have whatever pride you want and still lament the intolerance shown to gay people. And of course it is ironic that the very person who quotes intolerance around the world, ends his post dismissing any other opinion.

Well call me arrogant then because I totally dismiss the need for a ‘straight pride’. James Fell nailed it perfectly;

“I'm straight. I like being straight. A big reason why I like being straight is that I've never once experienced bigotry for my sexuality. I didn't have to fight for my right to marry the person of my choosing. I didn't have to concern myself with being beaten or killed because others didn't accept who I wanted to sleep with. I didn't have to stay closeted out of fear, or worry about the reaction of my family, friends, or colleagues by coming out.

I never got called a slur for being straight. No one told me I'm going to burn in hell for being straight. There aren't any programs where I could be sent to be tortured into no longer being straight. There aren't any countries where you can be put to death simply for being straight.

There is nothing I ever had to fight for, or struggle against, because I'm straight. And therefore, there isn't any reason to take pride in it. Grateful for the privileges I get? Sure. But pride? I don't see it.”

Mr deez · Jun 8, 2019

This a real debate again these days? **** me we're sinking.

nail-Z · Jun 8, 2019

I think this summed it up perfectly for me;

Oh. I see I’ve been beaten to it...

dingodan · Jun 8, 2019

Well for all it's good intentions, it still perpetuates group identity.

Dispensing with group identities and valuing people only as individuals is the only way to overcome prejudice.

If you really want to see the back of prejudice, then pride events of any kind, well intentioned as they are, are actually counterproductive.

The Clamp · Jun 8, 2019

dingodan said:
Well for all it's good intentions, it still perpetuates group identity.

Dispensing with group identities and valuing people only as individuals is the only way to overcome prejudice.

If you really want to see the back of prejudice, then pride events of any kind, well intentioned as they are, are actually counterproductive.

**** me! You really believe that bullshit don't you! Jesus.

Two Professors · Jun 8, 2019

The West Midlands is very tolerant,and has many gay pride events.Our Mayor is openly gay,but belongs to the Conservative party and voted for Brexit,so is he evil?Why do some people find it necessary to vilify 52% of the the voting public when some are gay,and some are from multi-ethnicities.Perhaps Brexiteers should hold a Brexit Pride to confuse you lot!

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