[Albion] Does anyone else think we have good players?

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ · May 13, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
Sorry, but remind me in Murray's excellent career when he scored more goals in the top flight than under Hughton? Did Smuggy make him better, he had him as a 31 year old?

I'm not sure how that's relevant here? I was merely responding to edna's comment that the majority of players she'd listed as decent Bournemouth players had all be bought from the Lower Leagues and improved to the point they were now considered to be decent Premier League players...

edna krababappel said:
Looking at other clubs around us, Bournemouth would have clubs chasing Wilson, Brooks, Ake, Fraser, whilst they'd sell Josh King easily enough.

rogersix · May 13, 2019

tedebear said:
I think this is the risk that Bloom is now taking..that the team are good enough without CH to stay up, I think CH has kept a Championship team in the PL for 2 seasons, thats obviously not cutting the mustard anymore...Bloom wouldn't be making the decision thinking we'll go down before we build a squad again to stay in the PL, so he must be banking on the fact that someone else can get good football out of them...Or has plans to spend more...

or both!

symyjym · May 13, 2019

We were very well drilled in defence but not so well drilled in the final third. Players not making the right decisions, which happened far too often, could be down to quality of player or down to the manager and his team not coaching the best out of them.

I think it is very important to remember that it wasn't just Hughton that left so Bloom clearly lost confidence with Trollope and Nevin and the whole coaching system that Chris was in charge of too. I know absolutely nothing about modern training methods but I can imagine that he was very much old school rather than innovative.

Who knows if it wasn't his right hand men that let him down in some shape or form because I think the clue is in three people going not just one.

Bold Seagull · May 13, 2019

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ;8911688 said:
I'm not sure how that's relevant here? I was merely responding to edna's comment that the majority of players she'd listed as decent Bournemouth players had all be bought from the Lower Leagues and improved to the point they were now considered to be decent Premier League players...

So in your eyes the likes of Duffy, Dunk, March, Knockeart, Gross, Murray, Stephens haven't improved under Hughton? Are they not all considered decent PL players that would be all be sold for handsome sums over what we paid for them? Didn't Kayal cost under £1m? Murray has more goals than Josh King and Howe didn't think Murray was good enough for the Premier League. Brooks cost £10m, he was Premier League regardless of whatever coaching Howe has given over the last 9 months.

Pavilionaire · May 13, 2019

There have been games this season where we've been at home and under pressure to get a win - so a huge onus on us to attack - and our players ended up playing like they'd forgotten how to score goals.

I believe that we have a core of a decent side but recruitment is key. March needs someone behind him to take on more defensive responsibility to free him up to break into the penalty area - he has wonderful feet. Bissouma is still raw but there's real intent there. Duffy, Dunk, Ryan and Bernardo are Prem quality, while others like Stephens, Andone, Burn still have an important part to play.

oldboyroy · May 13, 2019

Solly good winger Andone and Locadia showed glimpses of good attackers Stephens and gross can be great at times a.j not sure yet, biss has good potential dunk and Duffy of course so yes some good players there

albionfan37 · May 13, 2019

Whenever we’ve been a further 5-10 yards up the pitch we look so much better hopefully the new man will have us pressing and our default position will not be so deep and passive

zefarelly · May 13, 2019

Murrays stats are 'good' but when you're the only player contracted to be allowed to shoot. . . .or hit the target without being dropped!

Bold Seagull said:
Sorry, but remind me in Murray's excellent career when he scored more goals in the top flight than under Hughton? Did Smuggy make him better, he had him as a 31 year old?

Weststander · May 13, 2019

Pavilionaire said:
There have been games this season where we've been at home and under pressure to get a win - so a huge onus on us to attack - and our players ended up playing like they'd forgotten how to score goals.

I believe that we have a core of a decent side but recruitment is key. March needs someone behind him to take on more defensive responsibility to free him up to break into the penalty area - he has wonderful feet. Bissouma is still raw but there's real intent there. Duffy, Dunk, Ryan and Bernardo are Prem quality, while others like Stephens, Andone, Burn still have an important part to play.

I agree about all the players you mention, that’s a core of PL class players, but I’m not sure about Andone who often appears lazy and goes missing in matches (for an athlete in his prime).

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the players you haven’t mentioned sidelined or sold.

durrington gull · May 13, 2019

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ;8911559 said:
I find it kind of baffling how dismissive people are of the quality of our squad!

We have a lot of good players! My personal belief is that they just lacked good enough coaching to develop them into a cohesive team with a tactical plan. Additionally at an individual level I don't think we've seen enough improvement in movement, decision making and technique. Good coaching should improve players individually, and as a team we should aim to be functioning as more than the sum of our parts.

I'm sick and tired of hearing how the players weren't / aren't good enough. Good enough for what? To play a rigid 4-5-1 with 10 men in our own half? Try giving them some decent coaching and an actual tactical plan and see what happens.

No - the squad isnt good enough especially in attacking positions - we desperately need pace added

El Presidente · May 13, 2019

Stat Brother said:
a))

Which ones?

the right footed denilson · May 13, 2019

Weststander said:
I agree about all the players you mention, that’s a core of PL class players, but I’m not sure about Andone who often appears lazy and goes missing in matches (for an athlete in his prime).

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the players you haven’t mentioned sidelined or sold.

Do you not think, at all, that Andone was frustrated/annoyed/whatever? He started like a maniac. I think he was one of the ones who SERIOUSLY fell out with Hughton and expect much more from him next year.

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ · May 13, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
So in your eyes the likes of Duffy, Dunk, March, Knockeart, Gross, Murray, Stephens haven't improved under Hughton? Are they not all considered decent PL players that would be all be sold for handsome sums over what we paid for them?

I started this thread saying that I though we had good players and that they would improve with better coaching, I don't think March, Stephens, Gross or Knockaert have been improved to the top of their ability. Dunk - well he's cut out the silly mistakes I suppose, whether that's down to drawing on his own experience or coaching it's hard to say. Murray's an old warhorse! And Duffy? Well he's a quality player who wins everything in the air and throws his body on the line...

Bold Seagull · May 13, 2019

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ;8911727 said:
I started this thread saying that I though we had good players and that they would improve with better coaching, I don't think March, Stephens, Gross or Knockaert have been improved to the top of their ability. Dunk - well he's cut out the silly mistakes I suppose, whether that's down to drawing on his own experience or coaching it's hard to say. Murray's an old warhorse! And Duffy? Well he's a quality player who wins everything in the air and throws his body on the line...

So really, you're just applying good coaching having an impact when it suits your argument, basically.

Quite easy to say that players from another team whom I presume you don't watch week in week out have been improved to the top of their ability, but our own players haven't. Just a subjective narrative really.

Stat Brother · May 13, 2019

El Presidente said:
Which ones?

My hope is all of this teams attacking players will improve, assuming the new man won't also consistently play Murray to the detriment of everybody else.

I do accept that may well be a little too rose-tinted, but nevertheless if say any 2 from AK, Solly, Big Jurg, Andone & Ali J (Gross and Jose get a pass) the team as a whole would instantly be better than what we have seen this season.

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ · May 13, 2019

Bold Seagull said:
So really, you're just applying good coaching having an impact when it suits your argument, basically.

Quite easy to say that players from another team whom I presume you don't watch week in week out have been improved to the top of their ability, but our own players haven't. Just a subjective narrative really.

No! Not at all, my response about Bournemouth was to edna's comment on those particular players that she highlighted (Fraser, King, Wilson, Brooks) being desired by other clubs and that none of our players were. I was merely pointing out to her that those players had been picked up from the lower leagues. The overall point of this thread was that I think we have good players, who could be made even better with decent coaching.

dejavuatbtn · May 13, 2019

Strikes me that a big proportion of our problems are not keeping hold of the ball and giving it away cheaply. Not enough nouse in playing quick moving triangles and quick feet, and players not supporting the player on the ball etc. Partly a coaching issue and mostly quality. You only have to look at the top sides and mid table sides like Bournemouth and compare them to us.
Better quality players and modern thinking coaches please.

Bold Seagull · May 13, 2019

Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ;8911742 said:
No! Not at all, my response about Bournemouth was to edna's comment on those particular players that she highlighted (Fraser, King, Wilson, Brooks) being desired by other clubs and that none of our players were. I was merely pointing out to her that those players had been picked up from the lower leagues. The overall point of this thread was that I think we have good players, who could be made even better with decent coaching.

The implication being they haven't had decent coaching, which is hell of a statement.

Managing and coaching can be completely separate entities. Tactically we may have got things wrong, Hughton may have man managed players badly, but now to say they haven't had decent coaching either, it's just ridiculous really. We went from nigh on relegation to 2 seasons of bossing the Championship, with basically the additions of Knockeart and Hemed. How can you say a squad that was nearly relegated missed out on 2nd by GD wasn't through good coaching? I can't buy into it at all. It's like you want to believe you are right to want the change, so you are throwing the kitchen sink at the justification for it.

When you work anywhere, or do anything, you can look back and say "Have I left with this in a better place than when I arrived". The answer in this case is an unequivocal resounding yes.

Pavilionaire · May 13, 2019

Weststander said:
I agree about all the players you mention, that’s a core of PL class players, but I’m not sure about Andone who often appears lazy and goes missing in matches (for an athlete in his prime).

Andone is perhaps the most enigmatic of our squad and I really hope the new manager pencils him in as our No. 1 striker from this point onwards because he can finish and he has self-belief.

A secondary point is that we've signed another Romanian international in Tudor Baluta as defensive midfield and it's always good to have people from your own country to help you settle.

Weststander · May 13, 2019

the right footed denilson said:
Do you not think, at all, that Andone was frustrated/annoyed/whatever? He started like a maniac. I think he was one of the ones who SERIOUSLY fell out with Hughton and expect much more from him next year.

I truly hope so. His transfer fee was relatively good value and ‘The Goal’ was the best I’ve seen in 43 years of support.

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[Albion] Does anyone else think we have good players?

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