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[Other Sport] Female athletes with high testosterone levels

How should female athletes with high testosterone levels be treated?

  • Leave them alone and let them get on with it

    Votes: 32 55.2%
  • Make them take testosterone suppressants

    Votes: 12 20.7%
  • Make them compete against men if they don't take suppressants

    Votes: 3 5.2%
  • Create a women with high testosterone level competitive category

    Votes: 11 19.0%

  • Total voters
    58


marlowe

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2015
3,898
An International sports court today ruled that female athletes with high testosterone can be required to take suppressants.

This follows the International Association of Athletics Federations track’s governing body's decision about high testosterone levels in female athletes. The IAAF said that women who have more than 5 nano-mols per liter of testosterone in their blood—like South African sprinter and Olympic gold medalist Caster Semenya—must either compete against men, or take medication to reduce their natural testosterone levels.*

Is it fair to penalise women like this? To make them compete against men would mean they would be competing against men with higher testosterone levels than them which if course immediately puts them at an unfair disadvantage. In that scenario a case could be put forward to force the men who she is obliged to compete against to reduce their testosterone levels accordingly seeing as that is being proposed as the alternative option for women with high testosterone levels to remain competing in the female category.

Another* option could be to have a third competitive category, "mens", "womens" and "womens with more than 5 nano-mols per litre of testosterone".
 


strings

Moving further North...
Feb 19, 2006
9,965
Barnsley
An International sports court today ruled that female athletes with high testosterone can be required to take suppressants.

This follows the International Association of Athletics Federations track’s governing body's decision about high testosterone levels in female athletes. The IAAF said that women who have more than 5 nano-mols per liter of testosterone in their blood—like South African sprinter and Olympic gold medalist Caster Semenya—must either compete against men, or take medication to reduce their natural testosterone levels.*

Is it fair to penalise women like this? To make them compete against men would mean they would be competing against men with higher testosterone levels than them which if course immediately puts them at an unfair disadvantage. In that scenario a case could be put forward to force the men who she is obliged to compete against to reduce their testosterone levels accordingly seeing as that is being proposed as the alternative option for women with high testosterone levels to remain competing in the female category.

Another* option could be to have a third competitive category, "mens", "womens" and "womens with more than 5 nano-mols per litre of testosterone".

Entirely unfair. Semenya is a woman genetically, why should they IAAF re-define what is male and female? If she has done something to increase the testosterone, this should be banned. But I don't see why athletes should be required to change something that is natural in them. Usain Bolt benefited from having massively long legs... should he have been required to undergo treatment to shorten his legs...? Of course not.

I think (and hope) that the IAAF will come to regret this decision in future.
 


Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,025
West Sussex
I don't begin to understand all of the issues at play here... but it is surely a very slippery slope... will we end up (rather like the paralympics) with categories for every genetic variation/anomalies/gifts like height, strength, webbed feet, etc...
 


rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,521
This is really tricky.

Taking Semenya as the example she can't compete against men because their testosterone levels will be far higher so she would be disadvantaged.

Women competing against her would be at a disadvantage as Semenya's testosterone level would be much higher.

I suppose asking Semenya and others who have the same issue to reduce their testosterone is the only sensible option really so she is competing equally with other women. It wouldn't be at all practical to expect ALL male athletes to reduce their testosterone levels to that of Semenya's.

Sad thing but if we want equality of competition, then the IAAF's solution seems to be the fairest.
 


pasty

A different kind of pasty
Jul 5, 2003
30,178
West, West, West Sussex
So they ban athletes for taking performance enhancing drugs, but are enforcing performance diminishing drugs?
 
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Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
73,369
West west west Sussex
I don't begin to understand all of the issues at play here... but it is surely a very slippery slope... will we end up (rather like the paralympics) with categories for every genetic variation/anomalies/gifts like height, strength, webbed feet, etc...

At least [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] nephew could get a medal.
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,730
Brighton
Women competing against her would be at a disadvantage as Semenya's testosterone level would be much higher.

A disadvantage yes, but not a morally unfair one. That's like saying Brighton are at a disadvantage when playing against Man City, because Man City's players are better. Yes they are. Should they be penalised for having better players? Obviously not.

Otherwise we need to also ban all athletes with naturally longer legs. Utterly ludicrous.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
59,198
The Fatherland
By a similar token testosterone levels must vary within men as well. Will men outside an acceptable range also have an unfair advantage?
 




Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
13,679
Almería
Surely elite sports is all about individuals that are born with unfair genetic advantages. I don't see why this particular one should be penalised.
 


mothy

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2012
2,094
I think it is fairer to have females with high testosterone levels compete than to have gender reassigned females (ex-men) compete (as is allowed in some sports now - cycling for example)
 


happypig

Staring at the rude boys
May 23, 2009
7,935
Eastbourne
If Semenya has a bit of an advantage because she has higher testosterone then other athletes have to accept that, after all many of them will also have genetic advantages.

East Africans seem to have a genetic advantage when it comes to long distance running, perhaps that should be evened out by making them carry a sink.
 




studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,555
On the Border
If Semenya has a bit of an advantage because she has higher testosterone then other athletes have to accept that, after all many of them will also have genetic advantages.

East Africans seem to have a genetic advantage when it comes to long distance running, perhaps that should be evened out by making them carry a sink.

The advantage extends to the fact that Semenya has a body that has almost gone through male puberty and as well as the physical strength she doesn't have to deal with periods or managing her menstrual cycle around competitions.

Whether its relevant or not, she did have a sex test a few years ago and the results have never been made public.




This is obviously a tricky situation which has effectively been acknowledged in the findings, and we will in the future no doubt see a trans gender class of competitor which will include the likes of Semenya.
 


CliveWalkerWingWizard

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2006
2,667
surrenden
It is likely but not been disclosed that semenya has an intersex condition, possibly XXY. It is not a level playing field for the female athletes with lower testosterone levels. It is not as simple as saying it is just genetic variation. All the time she competes no other athlete will be able beat her, although if she competed with males she would be no more than a club athlete.
 


Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patreon
Apr 30, 2013
13,765
Herts
Her 800m PB is a full second off the (drug-enhanced most likely) WR, and also 0.25 sec slower than the (afaik) non drug-enhanced Kenyan athlete Jelimo.

She’s fast, yes. She’s probably winning medals that she wouldn’t if she didn’t have elevated testosterone levels; but she’s not setting women’s records.
 




vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,867
My ex-wife had quite a 'tache on her so she had plenty of testosterone but she could never run faster than me.
 


Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
45,919
at home
There was a woman's Olympic representative on the radio saying that it is totally unfair that ladies with high testosterone are allowed to compete against women as it is not a level playing field.

the saffies say that it is her talent that is why she won those championships, but wouldn't accept that having a far higher testosterone rate that any other women racing was anything wrong.

This also is now being looked at for transgender athletes.

It is a very difficult and complex issue, but if I was a woman who had trained all my life was beaten regularly by athletes that were of a different physical make up to me, I am not sure I would be happy.
 


Perfidious Albion

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2011
5,987
At the end of my tether
Athletes succeed largely because their body make-up is suited . Providing it is entirely natural ,that is just the way it is. The one with long legs is advantaged in long jump. Are they going to handicap them ?
 


Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Leave the poor woman alone,it's disgusting dragging all this out through the press.If she has female bits,she's a woman,as long as she hasn't got balls as well.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
An International sports court today ruled that female athletes with high testosterone can be required to take suppressants.
Is it just any female athlete with high testosterone levels, or is it females who were born males?

The IAAF said that women who have more than 5 nano-mols per liter of testosterone in their blood—like South African sprinter and Olympic gold medalist Caster Semenya—must either compete against men, or take medication to reduce their natural testosterone levels.*
About time re Caster.

Is it fair to penalise women like this?
Are you taking the piss? Is it fair to make all women in the world compete against the likes of Caster, who was born a man?

In that scenario a case could be put forward to force the men who she is obliged to compete against to reduce their testosterone levels accordingly
Don't be daft.
Another* option could be to have a third competitive category, "mens", "womens" and "womens with more than 5 nano-mols per litre of testosterone".
I already told you to stop being daft.


In other news, 30 year old Matthew Palmer, who self identifies as an 8 year old girl, dominated the World's under-9 MMA tournament.
 





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