[Albion] Recruitment Dept

Lifelong Supporter · Apr 21, 2019

The truth is in forward positions we are looking for bargains by PL standards so there are going to be a good number who do not make the grade. The big test will be the Murray replacement for next season and who we are going to splash out on. Glenn Murray has 11 in 34 this season. Chris Wood has 10 in 34 and would cost close on £50million say and triple Glenn's wages. Add to that our style of play inevitably makes striking 'hard work' and we have a real problem if we stay in the PL.

PILTDOWN MAN · Apr 21, 2019

Lifelong Supporter said:
The truth is in forward positions we are looking for bargains by PL standards so there are going to be a good number who do not make the grade. The big test will be the Murray replacement for next season and who we are going to splash out on. Glenn Murray has 11 in 34 this season. Chris Wood has 10 in 34 and would cost close on £50million say and triple Glenn's wages. Add to that our style of play inevitably makes striking 'hard work' and we have a real problem if we stay in the PL.

If Chris Wood is worth 50 million I'm a saucepan.

He signed for 15 and a year on is worth 20 at most

BensGrandad · Apr 21, 2019

PILTDOWN MAN said:
If Chris Wood is worth 50 million I'm a saucepan.

He signed for 15 and a year on is worth 20 at most

We agree on something.I wonder how much wages Sturridge would want and also his injury record to make him a viable signing.

PILTDOWN MAN · Apr 21, 2019

BensGrandad said:
We agree on something.I wonder how much wages Sturridge would want and also his injury record to make him a viable signing.

What I'm a saucepan?

BensGrandad · Apr 21, 2019

No the valuation of Wood.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 21, 2019

Tom Hark said:
That is a very powerful statement from the manager, and one that the club heirarchy would do well not to ignore.

Yes but it is bollocks. Hughton is part of a four man recruitment tems. No player is singed without his approval. If yesterday was a 'statement' then it was 'I don't trust my own judgement'.

The new players are supposed to have brought a bit more attacking football. But he doesn't set up the play to take advantage of this. He seems to have expected the new players to slot into the horse shoe formation and transform the play from carthorse to my little pony on acid. Ain't gonna happen. So he's reverting back to the players he knows can play dull defensive for 90 minutes and, yesterday, it worked.

After we have ground out the last point needed to keep us up (assuming Colin's Blubirds get another 4) we need to elaborate or 'replace the manager' strategy quickly. If we don't we will do a Huddersfield next season. With even less pluck.

twickers · Apr 21, 2019

Mustafa said:
I think we should let a new manager have a go with them before we judge them.

At the moment we have a manager who is not getting the best from our players. Look what's happened to Murray, Gross, Stephens, Propper and what we've seen of Izquierdo recently.

With a new manager, with decent tactics and a new confidence, we might see their qualities.

A new manager? That solves the problem of pace and time on the ball from players used to the Dutch league does it? The new manager will have a wand like Harry Potter and slow the pace of the PL?

It's always going to take a few very bumpy seasons to stabalise and build a PL team. There is no fast path to do this. This narrative that tactics will somehow make them better players overnight is nuts. We are a promoted Championship team who have spent a chunk of change on players who have not, or not yet, been able to demonstrate they make a big difference to the team or adjust to the PL. It's a different problem.

Farehamseagull · Apr 21, 2019

durrington gull said:
Spot on - Recruitment team needs a major overhaul- clueless like Burke previously

But they were excellent for the two years before that. Surely if that argument is going to be used to defend Hughton as I keep seeing then it also applies to the recruitment department?

I also actually think Bissouma, Andone, Bernardo and Montoya are very good signings just not always being used correctly this season.

Jury very much out on Ali J still as maybe he is the type of player who needs a season to acclimatise but I think we probably do need to cut our losses on Locadia.

twickers · Apr 21, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Yes but it is bollocks. Hughton is part of a four man recruitment tems. No player is singed without his approval. If yesterday was a 'statement' then it was 'I don't trust my own judgement'.

The new players are supposed to have brought a bit more attacking football. But he doesn't set up the play to take advantage of this. He seems to have expected the new players to slot into the horse shoe formation and transform the play from carthorse to my little pony on acid. Ain't gonna happen. So he's reverting back to the players he knows can play dull defensive for 90 minutes and, yesterday, it worked.

After we have ground out the last point needed to keep us up (assuming Colin's Blubirds get another 4) we need to elaborate or 'replace the manager' strategy quickly. If we don't we will do a Huddersfield next season. With even less pluck.

Like most posters on the subject of squaring the circle you're not answering how except to say new manager, different tactics. This is the circle you have to square:
- spine of a Championship team (some still capable, some on last legs)
- finite finance coupled with appropriate risk appetite e.g. the expenditure must acknowledge the risk of a bottom 10 team
- time limited transfer window coupled with everyone bidding on PL ready players
- fans who'd rather we did some business rather than no business, regardless
- tactics needed to reflect capability of the team (not the fans)
- look at performance over a 5 year plan, meantime only objective is stay up

But no, change the manager and all those constraints go away.

Yes, first team recruitment needs to be better ...but only a handful of players in every window are declared bargains that turned out to be real PL performers. Our youth recruitment for the future pipeline looks good.

PILTDOWN MAN · Apr 21, 2019

twickers said:
Our youth recruitment for the future pipeline looks good.

Only they never get a chance

One Teddy Maybank · Apr 21, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Yes but it is bollocks. Hughton is part of a four man recruitment tems. No player is singed without his approval. .

Partially perhaps, but isn’t he presented with a list of potential targets?

Although, my other post was a bit ‘tongue in cheek’, if that list is based on affordable targets in the Dutch or Belgium leagues, then whilst he does have the final say, it is off a restricted pool.

I really don’t know enough about the recruitment and scouting side, but in the olden days, the scouts would play a greater role, rather than this moneyball style.... (which feels a bit like a computer game).....

Probably way too simplistic, but taking AJ as an example, great stats presumably in a poor league, hypothetically, Chris watches a video of a current international, who scores and provides assists for fun. How many times did we watch him?

Surely, a decent scout would have considered the quality of opponent, pace of game and player.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that whilst he may have the ‘final say’, his decision is based on what detail is provided and if that is crap.......

I still think AJ May come good after a preseason.

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Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 21, 2019

twickers said:
Like most posters on the subject of squaring the circle you're not answering how except to say new manager, different tactics. This is the circle you have to square:
- spine of a Championship team (some still capable, some on last legs)
- finite finance coupled with appropriate risk appetite e.g. the expenditure must acknowledge the risk of a bottom 10 team
- time limited transfer window coupled with everyone bidding on PL ready players
- fans who'd rather we did some business rather than no business, regardless
- tactics needed to reflect capability of the team (not the fans)
- look at performance over a 5 year plan, meantime only objective is stay up

But no, change the manager and all those constraints go away.

Yes, first team recruitment needs to be better ...but only a handful of players in every window are declared bargains that turned out to be real PL performers. Our youth recruitment for the future pipeline looks good.

The answer is in your question. You are simply confirming the point I was trying to make in a subtle way (too subtle it seems) that changing the manager is the only strategy with any hope (not guarantee of course) of improvement. :shrug:

TWOCHOICEStom · Apr 21, 2019

I don’t think Hughton has had much choice but to play the style of football he’s played. The players we’ve got in have been the same level, or worse than our promotion side.

Our hopes were being pinned on Bissouma, Locadia and Jahanbaksh to give us more creativity going forward. Which is all we lacked after a pretty successful campaign last season. (I think we’d all agreed there.). The reality is that those 3 signings haven’t done what we brought them in to do.

We can’t afford to spunk 30m on players who need a full season to come good.

If Gross and Izquierdo had carried on the way they were going and we’d bought literally anyone other tha AJ/Locadia, I think we’d be well safe by now.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 21, 2019

One Teddy Maybank said:
<snip>

I guess what I’m trying to say is that whilst he may have the ‘final say’, his decision is based on what detail is provided and if that is crap.......

I still think AJ May come good after a preseason.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you saying that although CH has the final say in recruitment, the process is flawed because someone else, the scouting team, identify the possible recruits? So you think that Mr Clough, Mr Shankley and Mr Ferguson did all their own scouting?

If I had a spare staw I'd give you one to clutch.

I agree about Ali J though. In fact I am not that concerned about recruitment (as were few of us on NSC at Christmas). The problem is how the team have been set up and instructed. Ali J can do things few other players we have ever seen at the club can do, but some see him only through their shit coloured spectacles at the moment. Whatever. Chucking him on as a winger expected to feed the lumbering Murray is a waste of his talents. Especially as Murray is so starved of action (owing to the horse shoe having its pivot point in Dunk and Duffy, our virtual playmakares) he is actually out there on the bloody wing himself, sniffing for ball. But everyone loves a scapegoat, and 'shit' Ali is he. Someone posted today he is our worst ever singing. Strength. Give me strength.

Whitechapel · Apr 21, 2019

Am I the only one who doesn’t think the summer recruitment was that bad, and that a lot of the blame lies with the tactics more than anything?

Bernardo is a clear upgrade on Bong
Burn is a good back-up CB
Bissouma is clearly a very raw, but exciting player with a big future
Andone; when fit, looks dangerous
Jury still out on Montoya

Balogun makes a mistake a game, and Jahanbakhsh has shown absolutely nothing so far (although has hardly played in his preferred position) but for the most part the signings we made should have improved the team. The problem is we play for a 0-0 draw every week with tactics that stifle any kind of creativity or attacking intent. Mo Salah & Raheem Sterling would struggle to do much in this team when they’re playing as fullbacks for 85 minutes of the game.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 21, 2019

Whitechapel said:
Am I the only one who doesn’t think the summer recruitment was that bad, and that a lot of the blame lies with the tactics more than anything?

Bernardo is a clear upgrade on Bong
Burn is a good back-up CB
Bissouma is clearly a very raw, but exciting player with a big future
Andone; when fit, looks dangerous
Jury still out on Montoya

Balogun makes a mistake a game, and Jahanbakhsh has shown absolutely nothing so far (although has hardly played in his preferred position) but for the most part the signings we made should have improved the team. The problem is we play for a 0-0 draw every week with tactics that stifle any kind of creativity or attacking intent. Mo Salah & Raheem Sterling would struggle to do much in this team when they’re playing as fullbacks for 85 minutes of the game.

No. No you are not.

twickers · Apr 21, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
The answer is in your question. You are simply confirming the point I was trying to make in a subtle way (too subtle it seems) that changing the manager is the only strategy with any hope (not guarantee of course) of improvement.

Er...no, change the manager and ALL those points remain which is why changing the manager is not an argument in itself.

One Teddy Maybank · Apr 21, 2019

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Are you saying that although CH has the final say in recruitment, the process is flawed because someone else, the scouting team, identify the possible recruits? So you think that Mr Clough, Mr Shankley and Mr Ferguson did all their own scouting? If I had a spare staw I'd give you one to clutch.
.

Normally the managers you mentioned watched them in person at least once (Clough allegedly didn’t for Ward though). Paisley certainly watched Hansen at Partick.

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Farehamseagull · Apr 21, 2019

Whitechapel said:
Am I the only one who doesn’t think the summer recruitment was that bad, and that a lot of the blame lies with the tactics more than anything?

Bernardo is a clear upgrade on Bong
Burn is a good back-up CB
Bissouma is clearly a very raw, but exciting player with a big future
Andone; when fit, looks dangerous
Jury still out on Montoya

Balogun makes a mistake a game, and Jahanbakhsh has shown absolutely nothing so far (although has hardly played in his preferred position) but for the most part the signings we made should have improved the team. The problem is we play for a 0-0 draw every week with tactics that stifle any kind of creativity or attacking intent. Mo Salah & Raheem Sterling would struggle to do much in this team when they’re playing as fullbacks for 85 minutes of the game.

No you’re definitely not the only one. You’re saying pretty much exactly what I’ve been saying - see previous post on this thread - and a few others on here.

This time last year people were falling over themseves to praise the recruitment. Also, as you say, when you break down the new signings individually, they all add something and have promise. Every single one of them have had a thread praising them at one stage this season.

One Teddy Maybank · Apr 21, 2019

Whitechapel said:
Am I the only one who doesn’t think the summer recruitment was that bad, and that a lot of the blame lies with the tactics more than anything?

Bernardo is a clear upgrade on Bong
Burn is a good back-up CB
Bissouma is clearly a very raw, but exciting player with a big future
Andone; when fit, looks dangerous
Jury still out on Montoya
.

I don’t agree.

Bernardo - just about ok
Burn - hopeless on the ball
Bussouma - lets see, promising but not PL ready.
Andone - hmmm! Great goal vs Palace, but poor otherwise. So no improvement yet.
Montoya - May get better - not yet
Balogun - started well but lacks concentration
AJ - not yet.

So out of all of those signings only Bernardo (IMO), has shown he is likely to succeed at this level from a consistency perspective.

I do not think that is a good window.

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