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Both Hughton and Ashworth report to Paul Barber.
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[Albion] Hughton In or Out?
- Thread starter Conkers
- Start date
Both Hughton and Ashworth report to Paul Barber.
Nobby
Well-known member
- Sep 29, 2007
- 2,605
Ah thanks, so Barber out will have to do it.
Based on TB’s HR format for the Poyet dismissal, what will be the reason given to dismiss CH.
Certainly not Gross Misconduct.
The Title was virtually won right up until the final seconds of the final match against Aston Villa. The ball didn't go through CH's legs in the final minute of that match.
I don't blame Stockdale for losing the Title because he had earned the team many points during the course of the season but if you are taking the final matches in isolation then your bow and arrow is aimed at the wrong suspect.
Probably the same way every other manager has been sacked- he hasn't committed gross misconduct.
I just voted IN, but I hovered over OUT for about 3 seconds first. If we lose on Tuesday I think I will be joining the OUTers.
Simontheseagull
Eye from the sky
At the start of the season CH was given two objectives:
1. Keep Albion in the Premier League.
2. Have a decent cup run.
CH has already met one of those objectives by getting to the FA Cup semi-final.
There is a good chance that CH will meet his other objective to keep us in the Premier League.
Can't see TB sacking CH if he meets both of the objectives he has been set, particularly as we have one of the lowest playing budgets in the Premier League where more money tends to buy better quality players. A team's position in the league more often than not reflects the size of a club's transfer/salary/signing on fee/agent fee/bonus budgets.
CH is doing a great job bearing in mind the resources he has at his disposal. The main difference between this year and last year is possibly due to last year's player of the season Pascal Gross having been injured/not match fit, leading to a lack of creative influence in the final third of the pitch.
1. Keep Albion in the Premier League.
2. Have a decent cup run.
CH has already met one of those objectives by getting to the FA Cup semi-final.
There is a good chance that CH will meet his other objective to keep us in the Premier League.
Can't see TB sacking CH if he meets both of the objectives he has been set, particularly as we have one of the lowest playing budgets in the Premier League where more money tends to buy better quality players. A team's position in the league more often than not reflects the size of a club's transfer/salary/signing on fee/agent fee/bonus budgets.
CH is doing a great job bearing in mind the resources he has at his disposal. The main difference between this year and last year is possibly due to last year's player of the season Pascal Gross having been injured/not match fit, leading to a lack of creative influence in the final third of the pitch.
TWOCHOICEStom
Well-known member
Good post.
For me, we are where we are because Hughton doesn't trust this team in attack. Simple as that.
If we're not going to have many chances, what should he do? Go for it and watch us get tonked every week like we did Saturday? No. Be cautious, try to nick a goal and defend defend defend.
The trouble is, when the inevitable goal does come, we still can't create chances. And Hughton remains cautious. So we have a very difficult time ever finding our way into a match in this league.
I don't think that Montoya, Bissouma, AJ or Locadia have a positive effect on any game they play of late. They're not doing their jobs.
We've sorely missed Izquierdo, an in-form Gross and Solly March. Their replacements just haven't cut it.
And still get tonked. Defend, defend, defend is certainly not working. The question is whether CH can play a different way. Hopefully tomorrow will show us that he can.
Monkey Man
Your support is not that great
Reluctantly coming to the conclusion that maybe a change, at the end of the season, would be the right decision.
If we stay up this season it will be on the back of some dreadful performances and results in 2019 and an awful lot of luck.
Chris Hughton is a fantastic guy and he's been brilliant for us. Certainly one of the best things to happen to this club. But I'm struggling to see how he's going to lead us to mid-table mediocrity with this type of football. My prediction would be more of the same next season, if we manage to stay up. And that means relying on three other teams to be even worse than us, or perhaps unlucky.
It's not disloyal or ungrateful to think this way. Nobody wants Chris Hughton hounded out of the club like Wenger was from Arsenal. But if the right replacement can be identified – which is a far bigger question than saying goodbye to the current manager – I'd say it's a natural time for a shake-up.
If we stay up this season it will be on the back of some dreadful performances and results in 2019 and an awful lot of luck.
Chris Hughton is a fantastic guy and he's been brilliant for us. Certainly one of the best things to happen to this club. But I'm struggling to see how he's going to lead us to mid-table mediocrity with this type of football. My prediction would be more of the same next season, if we manage to stay up. And that means relying on three other teams to be even worse than us, or perhaps unlucky.
It's not disloyal or ungrateful to think this way. Nobody wants Chris Hughton hounded out of the club like Wenger was from Arsenal. But if the right replacement can be identified – which is a far bigger question than saying goodbye to the current manager – I'd say it's a natural time for a shake-up.
TWOCHOICEStom
Well-known member
It's how Tony sees it though. Did they buy the wrong players for the right manager (I think yes). Or do we need a new manager... if so, who?
I'm definitely still pro-Hughton. However, if the players don't fit the system, surely a manager has to fit the system to the players. That's a concern. It is ever so slightly possible that we're just a bit shit.... but I don't think we're getting the best from what we've got in recent weeks.
E
Eric Youngs Contact Lense
Guest
IN for me! We have a team under pressure, who a few short months ago were probably over-performing vs. expectations and are now struggling. My reflections on Saturday were that we started pretty well, in terms of possession, promising situations, but lacked any quality in the final build up.. Too many of our players were way below form and looked bereft of confidence once we went 2 behind. A complete contrast to the previous Saturday. Propper has been struggling for a couple of weeks I think (since the international break?) whilst our other attacking weapons have been way off the pace.. I can't think of one forward-minded player who has done enough consistently to warrant a regular starting place : Murray arguably because he has at least put the ball in the net a few times. You can also see why CH has backed Gross and March - more consistent than their replacements. When you watch the goals back, whilst I like to give credit to the attacking team who took advantage in a way that we can't, the goals were our fault.. Goals 3 ,4 and 5 were immaterial for me - Duffy's defending for Goal 1 was dreadful, AK giving the ball away for Goal 2 with no pace in the team for recovery.. and then getting sent off. I struggle to put everything at CH door - too many players failed to deliver on Saturday- this may be quality, confidence, attitude, but I don't thinks it's always tactical. There may be a split in the camp - players like Duffy who are more exposed for lack of pace and technical ability when we try and open the game up, Ryan who has been average since the new year, will call for "back to basics" whilst others will say we need to attack more. No different than the split we often see on NSC.. Hughton will be determined not to lose on Tuesday - Cardiff MUST win.. it wont be pretty. I don't care as long as we get a result..
In, but based on timing and alternative availability. If we stay up I think TB will let the axe fall, if we're relegated there's no better man to bring Championship success.
E
Eric Youngs Contact Lense
Guest
But we don't typically get tonked - we imploded on Saturday, in a similar way that we imploded against Fulham - the frustration of the situation getting to the players - it can happen. We didn't set out to defend on Saturday did we? Up until their goal we were far more on the front foot than Bournemouth I think? I also expect a different performance from us vs. Saturday, but it will be based on not going behind. I have seen nothing that suggests that we have the players to play a different way.
SollysLeftFoot
New member
Uh, we are playing a different way. Our formation has changed from 4-4-1-1 to a 4-3-3, we're seeing more shots and possession. The problem is precisely that we are playing a different way..
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
The key is knowing how much influence Hughton has over our transfers and transfer strategy. If he is working within a strategy set up by others where he is only given a say on the targets they have identified, that there is little point holding him accountable for failures we have seen this season.
As said on another thread, our transfer strategy over 2 seasons has utlimately failed, even though for a season it appeared to have succeeded. Thinking we were all set in January, appears to have sent a message to this team that they were good enough, and we've collapsed since. Whoever made that decision is as culpable as anyone.
theboybilly
Well-known member
No it didn't. A mixture of Baldock not blocking off Grealish and Stockdale's howler stopped Albion's title challenge. There was also the attitude of the players after promotion was secured. Up until the Norwich game Hughton's tactics were (apart from a couple of notable exceptions such as Forest away)exceptional
saafend_seagull
Well-known member
He should resign if keeps us up, as next season we all know what will happen. We won’t get more than 20 points.
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Nixonator
Well-known member
I don't understand how you and other people can't see it.
We changed our formation around Christmas time. On Saturday we were set up to attack both in formation and personnel.
For me personally, I would have loved us to continue the rigid 4411 and defend, defend, defend as you put it. If we had, we would not be where we are now.
I'm not sure what compelled CH to change it, whether it was pressure for 'more attractive' football or the loss of Gross which made it work so effectively (at least at home). If I was confused about him changing it to start with, then I was utterly confounded by his persistence with it.
A transitional 451/433 has not, and is not working for us. Whether by the limitations of the manager, the coaching, the players... it does not matter. It doesn't work, and we should not have been persevered with it. This I leave at Hughton's door, despite having complete faith in his prior pragmatism. We clearly thought we were all but over the line and got complacent, risking a formation change (that had failed in all previous attempts).
I certainly don't think recruitment is to blame based upon the abilities of who we have acquired. Many of them are good players. I do wonder about recruitment based on mentality though. I'm not sure our signings knew what they were getting into? For example, anybody signing for Burnley knows exactly how they play football. It is effective but not pleasing on the eye and Dyche is more likely to spring out a man bun than change it. Therefore, anybody getting a move there has to be accepting of the limitations in the way they play and be contented to play it. This results in only a certain type of player signing for Burnley and you could make a case for our signings having more in the way of actual footballing ability. The result is they have a squad who are limited in ability, but fully committed to playing Dyche football. We brought in players, a certain amount of them with quite a bit of flair, who may not have been committed to playing Hughton's rigid game. Hence the change in formation and current backlash which has perhaps been building for a while. Just a thought.
Even if true, this does not absolve CH of blame, because he could have demanded we sign more Jeff Hendricks instead of Davy Proppers.
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