[Albion] Assuming we survive, is CH the right man for 19/20?

Eddiespearritt · Apr 2, 2019

Norwich sacked Hughton 5 years ago this month - when they were 5 points clear of relegation ahead of Cardiff and Fulham. They got relegated (under Neil Adams) with 33 points having had to play a string of leading teams in their final games.

I've a lot of time for Hughton's personal style of behaviour - but there was a moment during the Saints game when I wanted to stand up and yell to a very quiet stadium "THIS ISN'T VERY GOOD IS IT ?".
But I didn't. He was ultra cautious at Norwich in the Premier League, and in the end many fans didn't appreciate the methods any more. We may be heading that way - however, there is an opportunity to get the crowd going during any or all of the home games against Cardiff, Newcastle and Bournemouth and force the players to play with more freedom. Every time we've done that this season (often when behind or under pressure) we've looked pretty good, and some of the players have suddenly looked a different level.

Hampster Gull · Apr 2, 2019

Scunner said:
I respect anyone who thinks that we should stick by Hughton, but my suspicion is that this is motivated by loyalty and sentiment rather than cold, rational, objective thought processes.

Of course we should be pragmatic in our approach to consolidate our position in the PL. However, this was not the question, the question is 'is CH the right man for 19/20?' And I am saying no for two demonstrable reasons: 1) he is not attacking enough 2) he is not flexible enough.

His way of playing is perfect for 10 of the 20 teams we face, it is crap for the other 10, the lower 10. 10 teams that we should attack and we should be positive against. he cannot break-out of his straitjacket, and that has really cost us this season, at home especially.

Therefore the team is not *progressing* it is *regressing*. We have become objectively worse, not only in comparison to last season, but also with comparison to the first half of this season.

CH's natural caution and intransigence is not going to *progress* the club next season, IMO. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

For me, nope, no sentiment in the view he is the right manager for what Tony (and most fans) are trying to achieve at the moment with the resources available.

Agree he is not perfect, I dont see many managers that are. Although he played a fantastic style in the Championship, a real pleasure to watch. Pep maybe perfect....but he has a budget that you could argue breaks all FFP, leagues beyond our spend relative to peers two years ago.

The team isn’t regressing, we are holding our own. We are one point below this time last season. Vs earlier this season, I rarely see a season pan out consistently so not sure that’s relevant.

I think you are wrong but it’s a game of opinions

Not Andy Naylor · Apr 2, 2019

Weststander said:
Players follow the money. We’re relatively modest payers up to now.

Absolutely. Pritchard chose Narch ahead of us because of the money and the only reason players choose to sign for Palace is the wages. It certainly isn't their training ground.

Weststander · Apr 2, 2019

Hampster Gull said:
For me, nope, no sentiment in the view he is the right manager for what Tony (and most fans) are trying to achieve at the moment with the resources available.

Agree he is not perfect, I dont see many managers that are. Although he played a fantastic style in the Championship, a real pleasure to watch. Pep maybe perfect....but he has a budget that you could argue breaks all FFP, leagues beyond our spend relative to peers two years ago.

The team isn’t regressing, we are holding our own. We are one point below this time last season. Vs earlier this season, I rarely see a season pan out consistently so not sure that’s relevant.

I think you are wrong but it’s a game of opinions

Good post.

We will see Chris in charge next season, with hopefully a better first team.

Hastings gull · Apr 2, 2019

Scunner said:
I respect anyone who thinks that we should stick by Hughton, but my suspicion is that this is motivated by loyalty and sentiment rather than cold, rational, objective thought processes.

Of course we should be pragmatic in our approach to consolidate our position in the PL. However, this was not the question, the question is 'is CH the right man for 19/20?' And I am saying no for two demonstrable reasons: 1) he is not attacking enough 2) he is not flexible enough.

His way of playing is perfect for 10 of the 20 teams we face, it is crap for the other 10, the lower 10. 10 teams that we should attack and we should be positive against. he cannot break-out of his straitjacket, and that has really cost us this season, at home especially.

Therefore the team is not *progressing* it is *regressing*. We have become objectively worse, not only in comparison to last season, but also with comparison to the first half of this season.

CH's natural caution and intransigence is not going to *progress* the club next season, IMO. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Yes, good post. I do admire CH and want him to stay, but surely something has to give, and he could surely be that shade more expansive at times - play like we did on Saturday against Bournemouth and then Cardiff, and I strongly suspect that many of his admirers will change their minds.

Hastings gull · Apr 2, 2019

Eddiespearritt said:
Norwich sacked Hughton 5 years ago this month - when they were 5 points clear of relegation ahead of Cardiff and Fulham. They got relegated (under Neil Adams) with 33 points having had to play a string of leading teams in their final games.

I've a lot of time for Hughton's personal style of behaviour - but there was a moment during the Saints game when I wanted to stand up and yell to a very quiet stadium "THIS ISN'T VERY GOOD IS IT ?".
But I didn't. He was ultra cautious at Norwich in the Premier League, and in the end many fans didn't appreciate the methods any more. We may be heading that way - however, there is an opportunity to get the crowd going during any or all of the home games against Cardiff, Newcastle and Bournemouth and force the players to play with more freedom. Every time we've done that this season (often when behind or under pressure) we've looked pretty good, and some of the players have suddenly looked a different level.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Against Chelsea and Spurs, when at least we started to attack, we looked not bad at all, and in both games we could have got more out of the match. I can see why he decides on a defensive line against the so-called top 6, in order for us to stay in the game, but surely not when we are playing the bottom 6.

tigertim68 · Apr 2, 2019

The team never looks like it is playing with confidence, surely this is CH job to get the team to play with confidence ,
If he stopping bigging up every team we play , and actually start saying how good we are , that might be a start

Dolph Ins · Apr 2, 2019

Scunner said:
I respect anyone who thinks that we should stick by Hughton, but my suspicion is that this is motivated by loyalty and sentiment rather than cold, rational, objective thought processes.

Of course we should be pragmatic in our approach to consolidate our position in the PL. However, this was not the question, the question is 'is CH the right man for 19/20?' And I am saying no for two demonstrable reasons: 1) he is not attacking enough 2) he is not flexible enough.

His way of playing is perfect for 10 of the 20 teams we face, it is crap for the other 10, the lower 10. 10 teams that we should attack and we should be positive against. he cannot break-out of his straitjacket, and that has really cost us this season, at home especially.

Therefore the team is not *progressing* it is *regressing*. We have become objectively worse, not only in comparison to last season, but also with comparison to the first half of this season.

CH's natural caution and intransigence is not going to *progress* the club next season, IMO. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

OK I've tried to collect statistics but failed miserably, but I think we have had more possession, chances and shots on target this season than last. Is that not *progress*? To those of you who say we have no pace I would say we tried to cure that last summer and CH would like his front 3 to be Andone Issy and AliJ. However this has not been possible due to injury, internationals, form etc etc. I think we were bloody lucky last season with injuries and the transfers working, this year we haven't. Anyone who thinks we should be top half and playing teams off the pitch are living in cloud cuckoo land. Give TB a few years and yes I think I ( personally) will still be quite content with mid to lower table mediocrity.

chaileyjem · Apr 2, 2019

tigertim68 said:
If he stopping bigging up every team we play , and actually start saying how good we are , that might be a start

This has come up quite a few times on this thread. Do people really think this sort of stuff makes the slightest bit of difference to how we play ?
That bland praise of opponents both pre/post match in press conferences is par for the course from plenty of managers from Klopp and Pep downwards.
There's a lot of other speculation on this thread and frankly nonsense about what he's like as a manager the "he's a nice bloke..but " sort of stuff.
Yet the best way to find out ...just read what the players say.

Here's Bruno earlier this season via https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/2018/august/bruno-praises-hughtons-influence/
"He’s a clever manager and he knows how to deal with every situation and how to manage 25 players – that’s not easy because everyone wants to play, but he knows how to deal with that.
“We lost some key players over the summer – perhaps they didn’t play as much but they were really important for us around the changing room.

“He had a big influence on our survival last year, because he has good experience in the division and knew what to expect.
“We knew what we were going to face and that was because he’d been in that position before.
“[his experience] helped us as players to feel much calmer when we were setting up for matches.”
“It’s tough because he demands a lot from the players and he keeps the side well disciplined.
“But as a group we enjoy it a lot because he also gives us a freedom to go out and enjoy our game too.
“For me it’s been a pleasure to play for him.”

(PS: yes . its on the Albion website and yes. some might say its just puffery/propaganda but i don't think Bruno had a gun to his head to say it)

here's Lewis Dunk via https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/news/2019/january/dunk-hughton-up-there-with-the-best/

“I’ve had a few managers at this club, and he’s definitely up there with the best I’ve had in my career.
“It’s massive to have him at the club. He’s been massive for my development, I think I’ve come on leaps and bounds since he’s been in charge. I’ve become more and more consistent and he’s calmed me down as a player.
“A few years ago I was getting a lot of bookings and I’ve calmed down recently. That’s probably down to talking to and learning off him, because he was a defender too.
“He’s taken this club to the next level after it had had been trying to reach the Premier League for a long time. For him to actually do it is a great achievement for the club and the whole city. It’s a massive credit to him.”

and so on and so on.

Knocky's Nose · Apr 2, 2019

I think we have to be realists...

We will never be able to lob £1bn at the transfer market. We will never attract the World's top Coaches. We will (probably) never win the Premier League - unless all of these three change. There's more chance of Shane Duffy outsmarting Professor Brian Cox in a game of 'Guess the Quantum Theory' there, so let's not hold our breath.

We are Premier League, we are not complete shite like Huddersfield, we are in the F.A. Cup Semi Final, and we'll most likely be Premier League next season. Is it that bad?

Yes, I'd love us to be tonking teams, worrying Liverpool and Citeh, and challenging for a top six - but really? I think if we looked at our position 5-6 years ago and the sentence above was offered to us we'd have taken the Hunchback of Notre Dame as manager and been glad to have him.....

I think it's a case of we're a little spoilt now we're at the 'top table' and we all want even more. I'm not berating anyone as we all want the very best for the club - but when we do get all 'demanding', let's just remember where this man has got us.

Blues Rock DJ · Apr 2, 2019

chaileyjem said:
Transfers ?
Chris has “to have final say. “
https://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/17...h-on-recruitment-and-producing-young-players/

ain't done too well with his final say yet, to be fair ?

chaileyjem · Apr 2, 2019

Blues Rock DJ said:
ain't done too well with his final say yet, to be fair ?

His hit rate with signings has been pretty remarkable compared to most other managers .
From Kayal to Propper to Knockaert to Gross to Murray to Bissouma to Bernardo.
There's been a few misfires , Manu especially , and everyone would like to see more from Locadia, Izquierdo (injured), and Ali J.
But you'd be hard pushed to argue, given his budget, given expectations that some signings fail, that he "aint done too well".

Hastings gull · Apr 2, 2019

Dolph Ins said:
OK I've tried to collect statistics but failed miserably, but I think we have had more possession, chances and shots on target this season than last. Is that not *progress*? To those of you who say we have no pace I would say we tried to cure that last summer and CH would like his front 3 to be Andone Issy and AliJ. However this has not been possible due to injury, internationals, form etc etc. I think we were bloody lucky last season with injuries and the transfers working, this year we haven't. Anyone who thinks we should be top half and playing teams off the pitch are living in cloud cuckoo land. Give TB a few years and yes I think I ( personally) will still be quite content with mid to lower table mediocrity.

But do you seriously think he would want to play those three with real and fast attacking verve in mind? And I think your statement about those who feel we should be in the top half, is an attempt to add a bit more credence to your points. You can be critical of CH's defensive preferences AND not think we should be top half. It is the manner of the way we approach matches that is the quite understandable sticking point.

Scunner · Apr 3, 2019

Hastings gull said:
But do you seriously think he would want to play those three with real and fast attacking verve in mind? And I think your statement about those who feel we should be in the top half, is an attempt to add a bit more credence to your points. You can be critical of CH's defensive preferences AND not think we should be top half. It is the manner of the way we approach matches that is the quite understandable sticking point.

Spot on. It's the manner of play, it's an attitude thing. When we kicked off against Huddersfield and they had the ball we settled into a flat 451 shape immediately. I couldn't believe my ****ing eyes - seriously.

Attitude is what it's all about - say we have to play Burnley, Hudds, Saints, Cardiff, Bournemouth at home and objectively we need 7 points from those games to guarantee survival. Do you a) stay in your shell and think 'solidity will get us there' or do you think b) attack all 5 teams, win two, draw one and lose two because we were more open, at worst? With that attitude we may win three and draw one. So far we have three points out of that run and now, without momentum we have to win one and draw one to hit the target. We really cannot afford to lose, so negative tactics in the first three games will become even more cautious.

I can't wait.

Tony Meolas Loan Spell · Apr 3, 2019

Scunner said:
Spot on. It's the manner of play, it's an attitude thing. When we kicked off against Huddersfield and they had the ball we settled into a flat 451 shape immediately. I couldn't believe my ****ing eyes - seriously.

Attitude is what it's all about - say we have to play Burnley, Hudds, Saints, Cardiff, Bournemouth at home and objectively we need 7 points from those games to guarantee survival. Do you a) stay in your shell and think 'solidity will get us there' or do you think b) attack all 5 teams, win two, draw one and lose two because we were more open, at worst? With that attitude we may win three and draw one. So far we have three points out of that run and now, without momentum we have to win one and draw one to hit the target. We really cannot afford to lose, so negative tactics in the first three games will become even more cautious.

I can't wait.

I cant help but agree with this. Too cautious at home. The Saints game being a prime example.

Tony Meolas Loan Spell · Apr 3, 2019

Also I don't see Watford spending shit loads every year and they seem to make a decent fist of it AND they survive a regular managerial merry go round. So it CAN be done.

doogie004 · Apr 3, 2019

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Birdman · Apr 3, 2019

Brian Fantana · Apr 3, 2019

A resounding no from me. If we've got ambitions to push higher up the table, we need a manager with a more flexible approach. We've also seemed to have gone backwards from last season in terms of performances in general.

Weststander · Apr 3, 2019

My daily vote is still for Chris Hughton to be our manager next season.

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