[Travel] Appealing a rail penalty fare

sussex_guy2k2 · Mar 26, 2019

I had a similar situation on an overground line in London not so long ago. I didn't know the area and the first machine the missus and I came to was broken and as the train was arriving we jumped straight on (there's no barriers either end) and within a minute we were being asked for a ticket. We told the gentleman that we didn't know the area and that the machine we'd come to was broken, and that we'd happily pay the fare then and there, but he made us get off at the next stop whilst he called his supervisor to check that the machine was indeed broken.

On returning sheepishly to tell us that it was indeed broken and that we didn't need to pay the £50 fine, he was less than happy when I asked him for a refund for some of the show we were likely to miss because of his faffing about and his broken machine. Needless to say he gave us the ticket for free.

TWOCHOICEStom · Mar 26, 2019

Ernest said:
Get there earlier or buy in advance

Oh I'm not suggesting there's nothing anybody can do to avoid getting caught. Of course it's your responsibility to abide by the rules.

I'm just saying that in this day and age, the need for a paper ticket dispensed by a machine is crazy.

Notters · Mar 26, 2019

Ernest said:
Get there earlier or buy in advance

So I should get to the station five minutes earlier every day, wasting a whole day of my life every year, on the off chance that a rare long queue should appear, rather than just buying a ticket from the four blokes sat twiddling their thumbs at Leeds station?

pearl · Mar 26, 2019

Justice said:
You actually gave them your real name and address

There is CCTV on trains and they have the power to arrest you. I'm sure [MENTION=14168]Durlston[/MENTION] didn't want anymore grief at the time

GOM · Mar 26, 2019

Notters said:
So I should get to the station five minutes earlier every day, wasting a whole day of my life every year, on the off chance that a rare long queue should appear, rather than just buying a ticket from the four blokes sat twiddling their thumbs at Leeds station?

If it happens again you could say you got on at Bramley. Different line but no machine (last time I used it) and not staffed trains every 15 mins.

NooBHA · Mar 26, 2019

I travel by train from Birmingham to London frequently and up to Scotland.

I am not very good with tech stuff on phones but even i have been able to grasp booking on line and then downloading to my phone. It is a brilliant system and works very well and wouldn't use any other method now.

Like someone else on here I used to wonder why proof of purchase wasn't an acceptable equivilent of a ticket but then realised you could send that proof of purchase to many different people and they could all be travelling on the same proof of purchase as it doesn't have a ''bar code''

I hate people who try and avoid fares and I saw someone even try to claim his battery wasn't charged so he couldn't show his E-Ticket - If you cant show proof of payment then you deserve to be fined.

However, here is where I have an issue with train companies by them not making it easy to purchase tickets on your phone during travel.

When booking a train Birmingham to Motherwell Return - I tried to book on my laptop and on my phone at the same time and using the exact same trains outward and inward. There was a disparity of £74

It was £74 more expensive for the same trains booking on the App on my phone than it was booking on my laptop and then downloading to my phone.

If the train lines want to make it easier for people to book on their phones then they need to standardise the costs instead of trying to make a ''killing'' from people who legitimately want to pay and purchase tickets ''on the go''

pearl · Mar 26, 2019

Weststander said:
I’m not averse to rail renationalisation, so this is hopefully an apolitical post. Excluding HS2, the government are investing records sums in the railways per annum of a net £4.2B in grants and £5.9B in loans.

Rail users used to hate British Rail and industrial disputes. I worked with people who commuted in the 70’s and 80’s, who really despised the striking staff.

It’s the age old problem of a complicated, illogical network, created almost 200 years ago and boxed in by millions of dwellings. Other countries had a blank sheet after being bombed to bits, with Marshall Plan money, and/or they industrialised decades later. I saw a documentary about French TGV lines, where they’ll think nothing of buying up stunning untouched countryside cheaply and bulldozing through forests etc in quick time. Everything in the UK is done far more slowly, with public enquiries, high land values = costly compensation, with an army of expensive experts making a killing on new infrastructure.

British Rail in its second life will face all those same costs, barriers, nimbies, delays, enquiries, and the same chaotic network boxed in by homes.

very true!

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 26, 2019

Weststander said:
I’m not averse to rail renationalisation, so this is hopefully an apolitical post. Excluding HS2, the government are investing records sums in the railways per annum of a net £4.2B in grants and £5.9B in loans.

Rail users used to hate British Rail and industrial disputes. I worked with people who commuted in the 70’s and 80’s, who really despised the striking staff.

It’s the age old problem of a complicated, illogical network, created almost 200 years ago and boxed in by millions of dwellings. Other countries had a blank sheet after being bombed to bits, with Marshall Plan money, and/or they industrialised decades later. I saw a documentary about French TGV lines, where they’ll think nothing of buying up stunning untouched countryside cheaply and bulldozing through forests etc in quick time. Everything in the UK is done far more slowly, with public enquiries, high land values = costly compensation, with an army of expensive experts making a killing on new infrastructure.

British Rail in its second life will face all those same costs, barriers, nimbies, delays, enquiries, and the same chaotic network boxed in by homes.

But the public play their part as well. We’re I live the Straße down to the Haupbahnhof was closed for over 2 years whilst they took out two lanes of the road for a tram service. Can you imagine the outrage and demos if someone in Brighton dared to suggest doing similar?

drew · Mar 26, 2019

Barham's tash said:
Ha ha. Brilliant.

No I’m an advocate of re-nationalisation actually. Plenty of other nations around the world seem to manage balancing infrastructure expenditure, modernisation, capacity, timekeeping capabilities and technological solutions at reasonable cost to the end user.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wouldn't disagree about nationalisation. BR was in a state because it was starved of investment, no doubt to help sell the idea of privatisation.

Commander · Mar 26, 2019

Ernest said:
Get there earlier or buy in advance

This just totally sums up the problem with the railways. 'Can't do' attitude. Refusal to get with the times. It's no wonder they are such a mess.

It is frankly embarrassing that you can't buy a ticket on an app on your phone and scan the code at the barriers to let you through. Although it's probably a good thing, because it would no doubt be too much to cope with for half the people that work for the rail companies.

Durlston · Mar 26, 2019

pearl said:
There is CCTV on trains and they have the power to arrest you. I'm sure [MENTION=14168]Durlston[/MENTION] didn't want anymore grief at the time

Thanks, pearl. :kiss:

At first I gave them my old address but they checked it on their system - it didn't match so the main instigator who was aggressive and intimidating made me shit myself. When you're in hot water over something that can lead to a £1,000 fine and even jail, it got pretty frightening. Paperwork turned up in the post a couple of months later saying that I was on a number of charges - I felt like I was a criminal.

I kept giving them £20 but they wouldn't let it go. I should have thrown the note at them and done a runner. :lolol:

I can laugh about it now. But a woman who I cared so deeply for lost her battle with leukaemia a month later. How I didn't have a breakdown with all the stress I'll never know. I was off NSC for a few months as everyday felt like a nightmare.

It's amazing what a good solicitor can do though. If anyone has any legal problems, PM me and I'll recommend them. They're very highly trained and compassionate.

Now, when I use the trains I make sure I get exactly the right ticket. It led to a lot of resentment towards staff for a long time.

Durlston · Mar 26, 2019

Ernest said:
If there are facilities to buy a ticket before you board , you said there was a machine then you don't have a leg to stand on. Pay the penalty fare before it escalates into a summons and it will do and make sure you buy a ticket before you board in future

As you work/worked for National Rail, Ernest, I was never given that option of PAYING the penalty fare. My brief found this outrageous and gave them a real rollicking.

Ernest · Mar 26, 2019

Durlston said:
As you work/worked for National Rail, Ernest, I was never given that option of PAYING the penalty fare. My brief found this outrageous and gave them a real rollicking.

Penalty fares only allowed in certain areas

Ernest · Mar 26, 2019

Notters said:
So I should get to the station five minutes earlier every day, wasting a whole day of my life every year, on the off chance that a rare long queue should appear, rather than just buying a ticket from the four blokes sat twiddling their thumbs at Leeds station?

Don’t moan when you get grief if that’s your attitude

Brovion · Mar 26, 2019

Notters said:
I had no idea you could do this - would have been helpful if the guy giving me the fine would have suggested it eh?

But then you wouldn't have fallen foul of the regulations would you? If the people you had bought the tickets from had mentioned just once that there was another way then you, being an intelligent chap, may have used it - and then how would they get to issue a penalty fare?

Railway ticketing is both a farce and a disgrace. There are myriad fares and ways to pay, and it's in the TOCs interests to make it all as obtuse as possible. Yes I know real rail buffs will say it's 'easy', but not everyone has the time or the knowledge to research all the avenues..

Brovion · Mar 26, 2019

Commander said:
This just totally sums up the problem with the railways. 'Can't do' attitude. Refusal to get with the times. It's no wonder they are such a mess.

It is frankly embarrassing that you can't buy a ticket on an app on your phone and scan the code at the barriers to let you through. Although it's probably a good thing, because it would no doubt be too much to cope with for half the people that work for the rail companies.

Spot on. The attitude of everybody involved in the rail industry, from government all the way down to the station staff, is appalling. Pay up, travel like cattle, and don't dare complain as it's not your railway it's ours and you should be grateful we deign to run any trains at all.

Thank **** I'm now a motorist again.

Mr Banana · Mar 26, 2019

NooBHA said:
I hate people who try and avoid fares and I saw someone even try to claim his battery wasn't charged so he couldn't show his E-Ticket - If you cant show proof of payment then you deserve to be fined.

Quite. The people I feel most sorry for in these situations are the likes of Southern and Virgin Trains, who are clearly suffering financial shortfalls judging by the £60 price of a peak return to London and £92 cost of a same day single from London to Wolves. Ticket dodgers embody a burning injustice against these selfless transport providers that should keep us all awake at night.

essbee1 · Mar 26, 2019

Notters - I'm afraid that you may simply have to accept that you have been the victim of circumstances and that,
while you know that you would have bought a ticket, there are plenty of people who try it on.

The people who gave you a penalty fare categorized you in that bracket and they ain't going to budge.

father_and_son · Mar 26, 2019

drew said:
Guessing you're not aware of all the upgrading work being done on the London Brighton line, including a full closure for a week in Feb between Three Bridges and Btn!

Or indeed the "improvements" to London Bridge itself... Otherwise disguised as the installation of 20-30 retail outlets serving little/no useful purpose and the building of a two-tier platform/concourse designed by someone who has never seen a 12-carrriage train empty and the entire passenger load try to squeeze down two escalators and two stair cases.

Whatever you try to say or however you try to spin in the device is utter sh*te and customer service is completely absent. Whole service a f**king train wreck (pun intended).

albionant · Mar 26, 2019

I also had to use a solicitor and got into a bit of bother over a ticket issue.
Best advice I can give is just pay them what they ask and write it off as a learn, they have a lot more power than you think

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Travel] Appealing a rail penalty fare

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

living vicariously

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Drew

Well-known member

"Garlic bread!?"

"Garlic bread!?"

Stupid IDIOT

Stupid IDIOT

Well-known member

Well-known member

Tedious chump

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Share this page