[Travel] Appealing a rail penalty fare

Notters · Mar 26, 2019

Does anyone have any experience of appealing a rail penalty fare? Is it worth it?

I normally have a season ticket but for the last few weeks I’ve been all over the place so have been getting tickets on an ad-hoc basis when I’ve needed to go to the office. I usually grab a ticket from machine or if busy the conductor on the train. Failing that there is a ticket booth at Leeds station with four staff who’ve always been happy to sell me a ticket without any warnings etc. Today the conductor couldn’t get down the train as it was so busy so I went to the booth and was handed over to a penalty collector.

PILTDOWN MAN · Mar 26, 2019

Notters said:
Does anyone have any experience of appealing a rail penalty fare? Is it worth it?

I normally have a season ticket but for the last few weeks I’ve been all over the place so have been getting tickets on an ad-hoc basis when I’ve needed to go to the office. I usually grab a ticket from machine or if busy the conductor on the train. Failing that there is a ticket booth at Leeds station with four staff who’ve always been happy to sell me a ticket without any warnings etc. Today the conductor couldn’t get down the train as it was so busy so I went to the booth and was handed over to a penalty collector.

You have been lucky so far then. Plenty of signs these days explaining fines. Next time get a ticket. You deserve a fine.

Commander · Mar 26, 2019

Expect the railway morons to be on here in a bit with their 'can't do' attitude.

About time that industry got up with the times when it comes to selling tickets.

Mr Banana · Mar 26, 2019

Good ol' NSC

Notters · Mar 26, 2019

PILTDOWN MAN said:
You have been lucky so far then. Plenty of signs these days explaining fines. Next time get a ticket. You deserve a fine.

Having travelled nearly every day from Guiseley to Leeds since August I've never seen a sign despite practising and advocating mindfulness, but I guess you know the Wharfedale Line better than I do.

Furthermore what's the point in having a massive booth selling tickets that you can't use?!

PILTDOWN MAN · Mar 26, 2019

Notters said:
Having travelled nearly every day from Guiseley to Leeds since August I've never seen a sign despite practising and advocating mindfulness, but I guess you know the Wharfedale Line better than I do.

Furthermore what's the point in having a massive booth selling tickets that you can't use?!

But you stated there’s a ticket machine so shouldn’t be a problem.

Notters · Mar 26, 2019

PILTDOWN MAN said:
But you stated there’s a ticket machine so shouldn’t be a problem.

A ticket machine with a long queue where usually there is none.

Cian · Mar 26, 2019

Are you not required to *find* the conductor to buy a ticket when boarding without a ticket; and doesn't that also require there being no operative ticket machine (or PTT if in a PTT area)?

There were piles of random pan-European railway manuals in the office when I was contracting for the train company here, I may have read some when bored...

beorhthelm · Mar 26, 2019

dont really understand why they do this, they have most main stations a "excess fares" office rail side to deal with this scenario, then randomly have revenue protection enforcement instead. so most the time they'll be reasonable and let you buy your ticket at destination, then decide a day this wont be the case. i doubt any appeal will work as they have the law on their side, logic and consistent application of it be damned.

Barham's tash · Mar 26, 2019

Commander said:
Expect the railway morons to be on here in a bit with their 'can't do' attitude.

About time that industry got up with the times when it comes to selling tickets.

Very much this.

Staggering in this day and age that proof of purchase via an app or with a confirmation email as proof this isn’t considered fit for travel due to some draconian legal conditions of sale BS.

Having to queue to get a very unsustainable paper ticket is frankly Victorian and needs to end.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Notters · Mar 26, 2019

Cian said:
Are you not required to *find* the conductor to buy a ticket when boarding without a ticket

He did say this but the train was rammed. Usually the conductor does come down the train asking if anyone needs a ticket. Not sure why it was so busy today.

Barham's tash said:
Staggering in this day and age that proof of purchase via an app or with a confirmation email as proof this isn’t considered fit for travel due to some draconian legal conditions of sale BS.

Also bloody stupid when there are barriers to go through anyway so I had to buy a ticket.

drew · Mar 26, 2019

Barham's tash said:
Very much this.

Staggering in this day and age that proof of purchase via an app or with a confirmation email as proof this isn’t considered fit for travel due to some draconian legal conditions of sale BS.

Having to queue to get a very unsustainable paper ticket is frankly Victorian and needs to end.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can buy tickets on line and get them sent to your phone via the Northern App

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/t...67.685788343.1527078136-1394180682.1522835593

Welcome to the 21st century.

Munkfish · Mar 26, 2019

I honestly do not understand how you cant buy tickets via an app these days without needing to collect tickets, it works at airports across the country, gigs and sporting events, even bloody virgin have the ability to scan the QR code, its an utter joke that statons do not have this abiity to scan phones, print at home tickets.

happypig · Mar 26, 2019

Barham's tash said:
Very much this.

Staggering in this day and age that proof of purchase via an app or with a confirmation email as proof this isn’t considered fit for travel due to some draconian legal conditions of sale BS.

Having to queue to get a very unsustainable paper ticket is frankly Victorian and needs to end.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have a Southern "Key" card and can buy tickets via my phone. At least half the time the conductor's machine and barriers don't read it properly.

Back to the OP, I appealed against a ticket issued by London Underground in 2000; A colleague and I had to go from Colindale to Islington and we got off the real train to get on the underground, cannot remember where but you could go from the overground platform to the underground without going through a barrier so when we got to the other end we went to the "fares to pay" window where the most miserable c..t I have ever met refused to do anything but issue us a £10 penalty, payable immediately with the added encouragement of a transport copper standing next to us.
An appeal to the head office fell on deaf ears.

Notters · Mar 26, 2019

drew said:
You can buy tickets on line and get them sent to your phone via the Northern App

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/t...67.685788343.1527078136-1394180682.1522835593

Welcome to the 21st century.

I had no idea you could do this - would have been helpful if the guy giving me the fine would have suggested it eh?

herecomesaregular · Mar 26, 2019

I appealed got it back minus admin fee. Easy process helped as I had kept tickets for the previous two days. Worded it with an indignant tone and situation similar to yours. Worth trying imo.

beorhthelm · Mar 26, 2019

Barham's tash said:
Very much this.

Staggering in this day and age that proof of purchase via an app or with a confirmation email as proof this isn’t considered fit for travel due to some draconian legal conditions of sale BS.

funny thing is they do have app for sales, thats what they'll use when you ask the guard/OBS and can do online through national rail or other services. ive not bought online do they send a ticket or can you "print" to local device? its pretty simple to implement if not. its almost as if they dont want to make it easy.

Barham's tash · Mar 26, 2019

Notters said:
He did say this but the train was rammed. Usually the conductor does come down the train asking if anyone needs a ticket. Not sure why it was so busy today.

Also bloody stupid when there are barriers to go through anyway so I had to buy a ticket.

I hear you regarding the barriers but most confirmations come with Q codes. As ever were told justification for above inflationary price rises are to pay for improvements to infrastructure yet as consumers we see little in the way of innovation for our benefit.

And frankly if any of the train bods want to start spouting about improved rolling stock I personally can’t see past all recent improved rolling stock such as the Samsung Thameslink trains, as being nothing other than a ploy to increase capacity on each train...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

drew · Mar 26, 2019

Barham's tash said:
I hear you regarding the barriers but most confirmations come with Q codes. As ever were told justification for above inflationary price rises are to pay for improvements to infrastructure yet as consumers we see little in the way of innovation for our benefit.

And frankly if any of the train bods want to start spouting about improved rolling stock I personally can’t see past all recent improved rolling stock such as the Samsung Thameslink trains, as being nothing other than a ploy to increase capacity on each train...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Guessing you're not aware of all the upgrading work being done on the London Brighton line, including a full closure for a week in Feb between Three Bridges and Btn!

wellquickwoody · Mar 26, 2019

Notters said:
Does anyone have any experience of appealing a rail penalty fare? Is it worth it?

I normally have a season ticket but for the last few weeks I’ve been all over the place so have been getting tickets on an ad-hoc basis when I’ve needed to go to the office. I usually grab a ticket from machine or if busy the conductor on the train. Failing that there is a ticket booth at Leeds station with four staff who’ve always been happy to sell me a ticket without any warnings etc. Today the conductor couldn’t get down the train as it was so busy so I went to the booth and was handed over to a penalty collector.

We ALL know the rules, a ticket is required, end. A one off may be excuseable, but you talk of weeks of boarding trains without a valid ticket purchased in advance. I really have no need to be nasty, but suck it up and pay up, you knew you were doing wrong.

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