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[Albion] To those questioning our tactics



Bwian

Bwian

Kiss my (_!_)
Jul 14, 2003
15,898
sussex_guy2k2 said:
But you have to ask what kind of movement you want (or CH wants). Do you want vertical or horizontal movement? And what happens if you make that movement, say horizontally to widen the pitch, and the pass isn’t good enough? The ball gets turned over and suddenly the team is a defender down...

I’ve seen enough of us under CH to know that, at Premier League level at least, he’s asking the players to play the percentages which means picking safer passes and making very specific runs within a tactical system that mean we aren’t exposed.

Also, is it really lazy not running 50 yards vertically to make space at every opportunity? Because that’s often what’s been required of our wide men in CHs system... if you compare that with a lot of other teams, their wide men are making runs that are half or a quarter of that distance because they’re simply positioned higher up the pitch. That makes it much easier to a) be in space and b) make clever movements to utilise space effectively. But again, that systemic, not down to laziness.
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Where does this come from with other teams? Are their players inherently more tactically aware? Smarter than our lot? Or do they learn that from their coaches? The Premier League is not an easy place for clubs like ours until we've got a few seasons under our belts so why make it more difficult? Things looked to be improving with the change of formation but at West Ham and Fulham we go 2 goals up and resort to type, inviting teams to attack by gradually dropping back. Concede 1 goal and we become even more cautious and introverted. Frustrates the beejesus out of me sometimes.

A 7 point advantage can vanish quite quickly.
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,799
Hove
Bwian said:
What about the tendancy to gradually start dropping back after we've scored 1 or 2 goals until everybody is packed into the 35 yards from the goal line? We end up lumping the ball out and it comes straight back at us and inevitably ends up with us conceding goals.That is coming from somewhere and seems to be a constant of Hughton's game plans. Maybe he needs different coaches? They were with him at Norwich and their fans were saying similar things.
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I think that is a tendency in any football match where one side isn't completely dominant, the side behind will take more risks in search of a goal as time goes on, and team in the lead will look more to protecting what they have.

Our biggest problem really is ball retention, and that is whether we are looking for a goal, or defending a lead. As a game draws on and an opposition takes more risks if we are ahead, our ability to retain the ball becomes more exposed. That really is down to quality.

We are not outright better than any team in this league, so expecting us to just go a goal up, get more goals and just cruise through a game on the front foot is a bit fanciful to be fair.
 


D

doogie004

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2008
6,441
wisborough green
Kneon Light said:
We have played Liverpool and Man Utd during this time so hardly fair to look at points total from 4 games.
Gross deeper and Propper further forward IS a change yet you started by saying there had been no tactical change.
Whether you like the change or not the facts are that we are now scoring more away - something lots of fans were calling for.
We have had a poor 45 minutes and all of a sudden half our fans are going into meltdown - it's pathetic.
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Didn’t stop Burnley going 2 up at Utd
Neither bmuff beating Chelsea


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Not Andy Naylor

Not Andy Naylor

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2007
8,798
Seven Dials
Lifelong Supporter said:
CH is an excellent coach. He is conservative and needs to be, given who we have in our squad compared to the opposition. He gets the most from what we have got. It may not be pretty but has been very much effective so far. I really doubt if ANYBODY would have achieved much more. At PL level we have one good goal scorer in our team and he is 35 years of age. Adone contributes well and will score a few but not enough.
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Personally I think Dyche gets even more out of even less.
 






K

Kneon Light

Well-known member
Jul 24, 2003
1,818
Falkland Islands
doogie004 said:
Didn’t stop Burnley going 2 up at Utd
Neither bmuff beating Chelsea


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And this season we have beaten Man Utd and drawn with Arsenal.
Doesn't mean these results are usual or there would not be such a gap between the top 6 and the rest.
Just saying that picking a 4 game run that includes 3 away games (with the only home game being Liverpool) is not exactly representative.
 






K

Kneon Light

Well-known member
Jul 24, 2003
1,818
Falkland Islands
Bwian said:
What about the tendancy to gradually start dropping back after we've scored 1 or 2 goals until everybody is packed into the 35 yards from the goal line? We end up lumping the ball out and it comes straight back at us and inevitably ends up with us conceding goals.That is coming from somewhere and seems to be a constant of Hughton's game plans. Maybe he needs different coaches? They were with him at Norwich and their fans were saying similar things.
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I think this may just be because there is another team playing!!
At 2-0 down teams are far more likely to bomb forward throwing caution to the wind to try and come back into a game. We have done exactly the same against Fulham (home) and Southampton. Also at Old Trafford we did the same - or was Ole's tactic negative and defensive sitting back? Does he need to change his coaches too?
 


West Upper Seagull

West Upper Seagull

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2003
1,513
Woodingdean
sussex_guy2k2 said:
Also, is it really lazy not running 50 yards vertically to make space at every opportunity? Because that’s often what’s been required of our wide men in CHs system... if you compare that with a lot of other teams, their wide men are making runs that are half or a quarter of that distance because they’re simply positioned higher up the pitch. That makes it much easier to a) be in space and b) make clever movements to utilise space effectively. But again, that systemic, not down to laziness.
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For me, the suggestion of laziness isn’t about making 50 yard runs, it’s simply about continual movement when we haven’t got the ball which may just be 5 or 10 yards into space. I’ve been amazed at how mobile the top teams are when i’ve watched them which always seems to give their player on the ball multiple options. That’s what i’m referring to and what we need to aspire to.
 






S

sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
3,741
Seagull4Ever said:
For me, the suggestion of laziness isn’t about making 50 yard runs, it’s simply about continual movement when we haven’t got the ball which may just be 5 or 10 yards into space. I’ve been amazed at how mobile the top teams are when i’ve watched them which always seems to give their player on the ball multiple options. That’s what i’m referring to and what we need to aspire to.
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That's all great, but what kind of movement are you wanting them to make? And into what space? And continual movement is fine in a top side where their players are fluid and they interchange positions, but we categorically do not do that. So if, for example, March moves 10 yards to the left to create space and receive a ball in the half space, what's the tactical implications of that? What happens if the ball turns over? Whose space is he moving into? Who is covering him? These are all questions that need to be asked... so just expecting a player to move into space, even 5-10 yards, can have knock on effects, particularly if those movements aren't in the same direction.
 


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