[Politics] Defiant burger-flipper tells 'bullying' vegan activists to 'bring it on'

Imagine the terror of a wildebeast being hunted by a lion, the lion digs its teeth into the leg as it knows this will slow it down so I can eventually kill it, while the wildebeast hobbles round in pain for hours until it can go on no longer and gives up and awaits the sharp teeth of the lion plunge into its neck.

So when the activities off to Africa then

midnight_rendezvous said:

Of course it is your choice and if it just affected you, then that’d be a different matter. But when your choice have a negative impact on living creatures and the environment, you can’t expect some people not to want to discuss, debate or challenge it.

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As I see it there are two main arguments put forward by vegans, first the moral argument that eating meat results in cruelty to animals and secondly the practical argument regarding the environment - in my opinion both arguments are flawed.

If vegans want to prevent cruelty to animals on a mass scale then a much easier, (and more effective), method of reducing this than trying to persuade fellow humans not to eat meat would be to eliminate all those species that kill other animals. Cats, raptors, fish, insects and all sorts of carnivores don’t care how much suffering they cause to their prey, so let’s eliminate them first. I don’t see vegans protesting against the numerous conservation groups whose sole aim is to increase the population of animals that cause great suffering to other animals. Why not?

On the environment argument vegans have got this wrong on so many levels. Vegans won’t eat honey, yet without the ‘farming’ of bees much of the crop they depend on to survive wouldn’t be pollinated and produce fruit or seed. If we eliminate the millions of sheep being farmed what would happen to much of the land they graze on? It couldn’t be easily used for growing crops and the ecology of many areas would be ruined for ever.

Is it really environmentally advantageous to eat vegetables that have been flown in from around the world rather than a good joint of meat from your butcher that has been locally farmed?

What of the waste products from growing crops? Straw is the prime example - multiple tons of this are produced for every single ton of wheat grain. The vast majority of this is currently used for animal feed and bedding and the resulting ‘muck’ spread back on the fields returning the goodness to the soil.

I consider myself an ‘animal lover’ and want to see the end to intensive farming methods and the undoubted cruelty that can result from this. The best way of helping to achieve this in my opinion is to buy meat from your local butcher who can tell you where and how it was produced.

Creaky said:

If vegans want to prevent cruelty to animals on a mass scale then a much easier, (and more effective), method of reducing this than trying to persuade fellow humans not to eat meat would be to eliminate all those species that kill other animals. Cats, raptors, fish, insects and all sorts of carnivores don’t care how much suffering they cause to their prey, so let’s eliminate them first. I don’t see vegans protesting against the numerous conservation groups whose sole aim is to increase the population of animals that cause great suffering to other animals. Why not?

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i know this, because thats natural. it is not explained why its considered unnatural for humans to continue farming and eating meat after millenia of doing so. they will appeal to us being more advanced, civilised, which presents awkward questions about those people where meat is important for cultural, social reasons, and of course survival.

Creaky said:

If vegans want to prevent cruelty to animals on a mass scale then a much easier, (and more effective), method of reducing this than trying to persuade fellow humans not to eat meat would be to eliminate all those species that kill other animals. Cats, raptors, fish, insects and all sorts of carnivores don’t care how much suffering they cause to their prey, so let’s eliminate them first. I don’t see vegans protesting against the numerous conservation groups whose sole aim is to increase the population of animals that cause great suffering to other animals.

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That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

brightn'ove said:

That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

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In what respect?

If the argument is that it is reasonable to protest about humans eating meat because it may result in suffering to animals then why is it ‘stupid’ to suggest that it would also be reasonable to protest against those who are trying to preserve and/or keep as pets other species that cause great pain and suffering to other animals.

For example the RSPB estimate that cats in the UK kill some 55 million birds and over 200 million other animals each year in the UK - much of the time just for ‘fun’.

wellquickwoody said:

As a dog owner, why not eat dog? I choose not to, but have no problem with the concept, or horses etc etc.

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The main reason dog is not great to eat is their high meat content diet. Dogs are riddled with stuff you don’t want in you. They’re scavengers too which is not healthy for humans.

Didn’t some Vegans dump a dead cow on the rail station concourse a few years ago?

Or was that Hamilton’s Water Breaks?

Herr Tubthumper said:

You seem to be going on abit yourself

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Pot/kettle HT, you (and several others) are way out front on that score

The Clamp said:

View attachment 104255

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Ironically exactly what I had for my tea last night .... and cooked like that too. Yum

The Clamp said:

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Looks nice, even though I don't actually eat meat.
Not really sure about the vegan option also pictured

midnight_rendezvous said:

Of course it is your choice and if it just affected you, then that’d be a different matter. But when your choice have a negative impact on living creatures and the environment, you can’t expect some people not to want to discuss, debate or challenge it.

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This is why I posted about palm oil, which is used is many foodstuffs such as vegan cheese. You don't have to kill the animals to cause them harm, but it includes ruining their environment to grow the crops.