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[Finance] Totally OT- employment contract and holiday etc



Jul 5, 2003
6,776
Bristol
Hey all, happy New Years eve.
Been trying to google this but proving very difficult to get an answer. Then it occurred to me the good folk of NSC might have an answer...

So my situation is:

Manage a pub on behalf of someone and I'm paid in the form of a % of turnover. Suits me and I'm paid well enough. I haven't signed a contract. I live here too, so free rent is included and ATM it works well.

I am assuming that with no contract I have very few rights. But, at the same time I assume my employer has some responsibility. I get paid via BACS with PAYE so that side of things is legit.

I've been working since April but will be leaving at the end of January and i've realised that I haven't taken any holiday pay.

Am i entitled to any?
Is what I'm doing even legal?
Any help gratefully received.
 
Jul 5, 2003
6,776
Bristol
Yeah, I'm paid properly, all tax and NI etc paid.
Just when I pay myself, each week, I pay a lump some rather than a formula involving hours x pay like my staff.
Main concern is lack of signed contract.
 

Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,463
Telford
BG knows pubs .... he's got the T-shirt

Holiday, sick, pensions, etc are all "agreed" in your employment contract - if you don't have a contract, there's nothing to fall back on.
If you're paid a percentage of turnover, then your "employer" will not care a jot what hours you actually work to achieve this, so in essence, you can take as much time off as you want.

If your question is eluding to holiday entitlement - how much have I accrued - without a contract that stipulates holiday and hours to be worked, my layman view is that you have no holiday entitlement .... nor any other "benefits" including a notice period
 
Jul 5, 2003
6,776
Bristol
BG knows pubs .... he's got the T-shirt

Holiday, sick, pensions, etc are all "agreed" in your employment contract - if you don't have a contract, there's nothing to fall back on.
If you're paid a percentage of turnover, then your "employer" will not care a jot what hours you actually work to achieve this, so in essence, you can take as much time off as you want.

If your question is eluding to holiday entitlement - how much have I accrued - without a contract that stipulates holiday and hours to be worked, my layman view is that you have no holiday entitlement .... nor any other "benefits"

I was imagining this to be the case. Thanks.
 


sussex_guy2k2

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2014
3,652
I was imagining this to be the case. Thanks.

You don't need a signed contract. If the contract is implied, which it sounds like it is, then you have every right to expect pro-rata holiday the moment they start paying you for those hours and that work. Unless of course you agreed that you were working as a sole trader prior to you taking the job? But that would be difficult to prove without a contract too so...

Ultimately, the responsibility is on him as an employer to give you the contract too. So you should be entitled to 23 days plus bank holidays, or the equivalent to 28 days relative to the amount of months you've done.
 

PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 15, 2004
18,573
Hurst Green


Gazwag

5 millionth post poster
Mar 4, 2004
30,086
Bexhill-on-Sea
Contact or not every employee has the legal right of 5.6 weeks holiday (inc bank holidays) per year. Any untaken holiday when an employee leaves must be given as pay, however, statutory holiday cannot be carried forward. So if you employers holiday year runs to 31 December 2018 and you leave on 1 January 2019 and have taken zero holiday in the year to December you are not owed anything.
 


Tim Over Whelmed

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 24, 2007
10,160
Arundel
Yeah, I'm paid properly, all tax and NI etc paid.
Just when I pay myself, each week, I pay a lump some rather than a formula involving hours x pay like my staff.
Main concern is lack of signed contract.

I'd be a little careful pushing this beyond asking the owner the question as HMRC may see your "provided accommodation" as a benefit in kind?
 

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,922
The arse end of Hangleton
You don't need a signed contract. If the contract is implied, which it sounds like it is, then you have every right to expect pro-rata holiday the moment they start paying you for those hours and that work. Unless of course you agreed that you were working as a sole trader prior to you taking the job? But that would be difficult to prove without a contract too so...

Ultimately, the responsibility is on him as an employer to give you the contract too. So you should be entitled to 23 days plus bank holidays, or the equivalent to 28 days relative to the amount of months you've done.

20 days not 23 is the legal minimum ..... assuming a 40 hour week.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,237
since you got this far i assume you arent super fussed and just want what your due - not kick up a fuss. as i understand it you arent legally allowed to be paid statutory holiday, you have to take it off. so either ask for 20-odd days off at the end of the contract or an unofficial bonus (and they run the contract on for that time, upto them ).
 
Last edited:
Jul 5, 2003
6,776
Bristol
Thanks all.
Much help, actually. Seems I need to just bargain a bit with the bosses and see what I can get.
Anyway, I'm off to run a pub. Enjoy your New Years Eve!
 

Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
Are you employed, or a self employed contractor?
 

NooBHA

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2015
8,584
I'd be a little careful pushing this beyond asking the owner the question as HMRC may see your "provided accommodation" as a benefit in kind?

This was challenged years ago I think in the 90s by Tetley's Breweries.

Accommodation - HMRC used to tax all managers a set rate in the 80s of around £570 per annum as a taxable benefit and had done so for many years and it had been accepted for many years.

It was eventually challenged by the Brewery on behalf of their Managers on the grounds that the Brewery insisted they live on the premises for security reasons and this being the case HMRC conceded that in such cases it was not a taxable benefit.
 


NooBHA

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2015
8,584
Contact or not every employee has the legal right of 5.6 weeks holiday (inc bank holidays) per year. Any untaken holiday when an employee leaves must be given as pay, however, statutory holiday cannot be carried forward. So if you employers holiday year runs to 31 December 2018 and you leave on 1 January 2019 and have taken zero holiday in the year to December you are not owed anything.

This is closest to the correct answer you are going to get. If you go down this route the employer will do one of two things

1. They will agree to it and pay the resulting holiday pay

OR

2. They may well claim that the percentage of profits agreed to be paid to you actually incorporated payment for the Employment Law Statutory Holiday entitlement

So I would say its a ''claim it and see'' how you get on and see what response you get
 

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