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[Football] FSF meeting with the PL



The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
I was invited by the Football Supporters' Federation's bi-annual meeting with the Premier League recently as an attendee on behalf of Brighton & Hove Albion fans. The Supporters' Club (the original invitees) couldn't make it, so I was asked as a substitute.

It's a round-table (alright, four-square table) meeting at the PL's offices in London, and they do take it very seriously. Dialogue is open and candid (for the most part), and relations are fairly good. Not every club was able to send a representative, but most did.

The minutes are here... http://fsf.org.uk/assets/PL-meeting-minutes-11th-October.pdf - and for clarity 'SD' is Supporters' Direct, another national supporters group, and Bill Bush is Director of Policy at the Premier League.




1. Structured dialogue

Fans of Premier League clubs are pushing the Premier League to ratify a minimum level structured dialogue template which encourages (rather than forces) clubs to enter into regular, ongoing and sustainable dialogue with their fans' groups. The criticism here is that the PL appears to have been dragging its feet about getting a minimum level template in place.

For their part, they feel that a 'one size fits all' approach to a structured dialogue won't necessarily work. Bill Bush, of the Premier League, then rounded on me, as the Brighton fan in the room, to point out that, given what is being asked for (a minimum of two meetings per year with fans' groups and/or representatives), Brighton's model wouldn't fit that as our dialogue with the club is on a far more ongoing, informal basis. For the PL to insist that we adhere to a structured dialogue template could be regressive for us.

It would be considered a progressive move, however, for other clubs who don't currently spend time actively engaging with their fans, apart from at arm's length. This process will be ongoing.


2. Rail travel

The minutes don't clearly explain the issue here, but the central point was to ask the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) - the umbrella organisation for the train companies - to agree that when a pre-booked, cheap train ticket (which is for a specific time of travel) becomes effectively useless when a match is moved for TV, for it to be valid at the new times of travel, capacity permitting.

Previously the RDG had only sent juniors to the meetings as a sop to the Premier League and the FSF, indicating the former's ambivalence to... all human life, frankly. However, more senior figures have been attending as subsequent meetings, and there is a small hope that things can be moved on from there. But we are a long way from that.

The British Transport Police have offered their views on rail travel, but seeing as we are mainly discussing fares and bookings, rather than behaviour and the law, there is only so much they can comment upon.


3. Safe standing

The minutes are fairly self-explanatory here. The Premier League is very much in favour of trialling safe-standing, while acknowledging it's technically against the rules to do so. There is a Catch 22 situation here. The government wants evidence that safe-standing is OK (we know that the current unsafe standing is OK, so it stands to reason the safe-standing would be OK - but, as we say, the government wants to see the evidence) before proceeding. However, the SGSA is almost a law unto itself, and t and would probably dismiss any evidence gained from Brighton and Cardiff's trials as (a) they have not sanctioned it because (b) to allow it is against the rules.

There is also a lack of clarity as to how current injuries in football grounds are recorded, including - as part of an agenda in itself - if someone, for example, trips up a step or spills hot coffee on themselves, and that accident is in an area noted for fans persistently standing, that accident is sometimes logged as a 'standing in a seated area' issue.


4. Brexit

This is something Richard Scudamore wanted to briefly touch on, and there wasn't much of a discussion about it. The minutes, again, are self-explanatory.


5. Ticketing

The FSF is pushing for three main concessions from the Premier League clubs.

First is the retention of the £30 away ticket cap. Scudamore felt that when the clubs signed up for it, they assumed it to be for good. However, it was only a trial agreement until the end of this season. The PL feels that the clubs will continue with the price cap, although it is down to them collectively. He will recommend to his successor that it is continued. Further, lower price caps will be discussed at future meetings.

Next is a price reduction for away fans when TV moves the game. The PL felt this to be unlikely.

The third is for a standardisation / price cap for Young Adults (18-22). The PL says most clubs currently offer this, and it's those who don't who generate the bad publicity. This is also an ongoing process.



6. Kick Off Times

A bit of a barney ensued over this one. To be honest, I'm not 100% clear what the exact issue was (I could probably Google it), but there was a lot of consternation over games being moved at the last minute due to - in this instance - Spurs' ground not being ready. A certain amount of finger-pointing about fans being put out - and out of pocket - as a result of this nonsense, and who should pay what compensation, if necessary.

The main upshot of it was that the PL and the TV companies would work harder to not repeat last season's farce of, for example, scheduling a game late on Christmas Eve.


7. VAR.

Again, the minutes are fairly self-explanatory.
 

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,320
Uffern
Very informative Alan. Is there any discussion on allowing drinking while watching the game.

I know that, like safe standing, this is a legal issue outside the remit of the PL, but seeing that standing is being discussed, are there hints about revisiting the laws on alcohol. It's totally bizarre that one week, I could watch a rugby match at the Amex, holding a pint, and the next week I couldn't.

(BTW, not only did I know the BHA rep but I also know the Spurs one - it's a small world)
 

Seasidesage

New member
May 19, 2009
4,467
Brighton, United Kingdom
I hope you cycled there? :lolol:

Can I ask a question? Was there any discussion around tying in the declaration of the TV fixtures with the rail issue? If the fixtures were announced before the advance tickets came into play the problem would go away. I know the TV companies wouldn't be keen as it allows too much time for games importance to change, but supporters convenience ought to come into play far more than it does currently and this would help.
 

BNthree

Plastic JCL
Sep 14, 2016
10,742
WeHo
2. Rail travel

The minutes don't clearly explain the issue here, but the central point was to ask the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) - the umbrella organisation for the train companies - to agree that when a pre-booked, cheap train ticket (which is for a specific time of travel) becomes effectively useless when a match is moved for TV, for it to be valid at the new times of travel, capacity permitting.

Previously the RDG had only sent juniors to the meetings as a sop to the Premier League and the FSF, indicating the former's ambivalence to... all human life, frankly. However, more senior figures have been attending as subsequent meetings, and there is a small hope that things can be moved on from there. But we are a long way from that.

Obviously not going to get resolved here on NSC but thinking out loud about this issue here: what if when a fan buys an away ticket they also, through the club website somehow, pay for a train ticket and that ticket does't actually get issued until it is known when the match is. Sort of like the fan is reserving the option to buy a ticket at the super advance price but it depends when they'll actually need it for. Obviously there is a lot of technicalities associated with that but seems possible.
 

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Obviously not going to get resolved here on NSC but thinking out loud about this issue here: what if when a fan buys an away ticket they also, through the club website somehow, pay for a train ticket and that ticket does't actually get issued until it is known when the match is. Sort of like the fan is reserving the option to buy a ticket at the super advance price but it depends when they'll actually need it for. Obviously there is a lot of technicalities associated with that but seems possible.

Maybe, but technology on the railways has regressed somewhat.

You can't even buy a ticket at Station A, to get from Station B to Station C any more. So the chances of them doing this are going to be small. Plus it seeks to assume the railway companies give the slightest toss about passengers, given that the written policy (often breached, thankfully) is to not even automatically allow disabled people on the train.
 


The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
I hope you cycled there? :lolol:

Public transport, old love.

Can I ask a question? Was there any discussion around tying in the declaration of the TV fixtures with the rail issue? If the fixtures were announced before the advance tickets came into play the problem would go away. I know the TV companies wouldn't be keen as it allows too much time for games importance to change, but supporters convenience ought to come into play far more than it does currently and this would help.

It was all that could be done to tie the TV companies down to a minimum of five weeks' notice for the fixture movement. To get them at 13 weeks (the cheap advance rail tickets period) would be nigh on impossible, especially towards the end of the season when other fixtures may well be moved for non-TV reasons. That said, January's TV fixtures have been out for 10 days, giving a 15-week notice period until the end of January.

That's the previously-held discussion. The short answer to your question is 'no' - it's not something the TV companies are prepared to do.
 

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Very informative Alan. Is there any discussion on allowing drinking while watching the game.

I know that, like safe standing, this is a legal issue outside the remit of the PL, but seeing that standing is being discussed, are there hints about revisiting the laws on alcohol. It's totally bizarre that one week, I could watch a rugby match at the Amex, holding a pint, and the next week I couldn't.

I think the FSF is choosing which of its battles to fight.

At the moment, it's not top of the agenda - they want to get safe-standing through first - insofar as this is one which requires Parliamentary time. They also know they'll have a tougher fight (excuse the phrase) regarding drinking in sight of the pitch, especially with the Safety Advisory Groups, all of which include the police.

What we have to remember is that what we have at the Amex, and the culture of drinking in the concourses early(-ish) and staying for a good 60-90 minutes afterwards is very unusual, to the point of being unique, and that other clubs just won't have these considerations. We are a good example of providing evidence to show this can work well. Other clubs are not so keen to make such a 'bold' move.

That said, I've spoken to the FSF group about it, and with single-use plastic being a related issue, which may well push it up the agenda.
 

Seasidesage

New member
May 19, 2009
4,467
Brighton, United Kingdom
Public transport, old love.



It was all that could be done to tie the TV companies down to a minimum of five weeks' notice for the fixture movement. To get them at 13 weeks (the cheap advance rail tickets period) would be nigh on impossible, especially towards the end of the season when other fixtures may well be moved for non-TV reasons. That said, January's TV fixtures have been out for 10 days, giving a 15-week notice period until the end of January.

That's the previously-held discussion. The short answer to your question is 'no' - it's not something the TV companies are prepared to do.

Makes sense from their point of view I guess. Guess that leaves persuading the rail companies to reduce their lead in for advance tickets :lolol:

I won't be holding my breath. Thanks for elaborating though.
 

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