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[Politics] Tom Watson has done it now



vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,892
Mayonaise said:
Politics is always a contentious subject and often will be a bit rough & tumble but in all my life, I dont think I ever known it to be quite like we have it at the moment. You look around and there really is nobody who looks capable of grabbing this mess by the scruff of the neck and leading in the best interests of the country.

I always felt that Labour elected the wrong Milliband brother to lead. Of course now we can never know but if they'd got that right, it's likely that we never would have had to endure that idiot Cameron.

Corbyn may well get in at the next election but it will be suicide.
Click to expand...

Compared to May ? a woman who can't hold her own party and cabinet together. I think " Suicide " is a pretty ridiculous suggestion compared to how the Tories have recapitalised the banks, who were the creators of the last financial crisis, at the expense of millions who are living for the next pay packet.

They have had no qualms about pushing millions in to debt and uncertainty regarding their future care by the NHS and Social Services, thousands more having their meagre DLA's slashed while holding the purse strings of the 5th biggest economy in the world.

When I was young, there were plenty of poor people but we all worked hard and eked out a living, there were NO Food Banks ? Housing existed and was affordable, we got a pension that would cover most of the costs of retirement. Now too many exist on poor wages with overpriced rental accommodation with little hope of improving their lot.

I come from a time when you usually always had a pay rise annually, if times were hard it was less than inflation but you always got something, now the norm seems to be work harder, "you are lucky to have a job you know" …. I work for a big High Street name and we were supposed to have pay reviews in June, two people were sacked in April for " not being exceptional " in their work, another one was effectively constructively dismissed but we have no union so we shook our heads and sighed and wished her well in the future. Consequently one or two people had " Reviews" but the 90% who didn't obviously did not feel comfortable about asking...

You say "Corbyn will be suicide " and I will quote an old proverb from the far east.... " Better to die on your feet than to live your life on your knees "
 




Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,719
Back in Sussex
vegster said:
Compared to May ? a woman who can't hold her own party and cabinet together.
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I wouldn't vote for either party in their current guise (and I've voted for both parties previously) but at least the Tories are falling out for ideological reasons. Ever since Corbyn has led the Labour Party it seems to have been a steady succession of fall-outs simply because people think he's shit.
 




Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
19,844
Playing snooker
Bozza said:
Ever since Corbyn has led the Labour Party it seems to have been a steady succession of fall-outs simply because people think he's shit.
Click to expand...

Also because he is anti-semetic to his very core and each time he attempts to dispove this he somehow seems to cement his anti-semitism even further.
 


vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,892
Bozza said:
I wouldn't vote for either party in their current guise (and I've voted for both parties previously) but at least the Tories are falling out for ideological reasons. Ever since Corbyn has led the Labour Party it seems to have been a steady succession of fall-outs simply because people think he's shit.
Click to expand...

Despite allegedly being shit he took a big chunk out of May's majority when he was predicted to be a disaster, May's sole "raison d'être " is to say " You have to stick with me or Corbyn will get in and that will be a disaster " as opposed to er, the current crumbling series of disasters from our current government. Just as in Brexit with the leavers talk of Project Fear we have a situation where the Tories are happy to push a similar agenda in order to hold on to power at all costs.


Just as a small majority voted for Brexit in the forlorn hope that we would suddenly become a world powerhouse with riches for all, before long a majority will see that the current government offers them nothing except continuing austerity ( that's working well isn't it ? ) and Project Fear.
 




Deportivo Seagull

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
4,899
Mid Sussex
Ernest said:
It just shows how certain people are using this as simply a tool to hurt Labour, if they were really concerned they would be against any kind of racism

[tweet]1026092034711584768[/tweet]
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Stop trying to defend the indefensible. This isn’t acceptable in any party let alone labour, trying to sweep it under the table because its causing the party problems is just unacceptable.
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Deportivo Seagull said:
Stop trying to defend the indefensible. This isn’t acceptable in any party let alone labour, trying to sweep it under the table because its causing the party problems is just unacceptable.
Click to expand...

You're wasting your time. There are a few Corbyn zealots on here who refuse to see what is clearly visible to most people. A party crippled with division and factional warfare plus antisemitism. A leader who isn't competent to run a Stop The War stall let alone a major political party, a shadow Chancellor who wants to overthrow capitalism, a Shadow Home Secretary who's only ever one interview away from another YouTube car crash epic, a Shadow foreign secretary who feels unwell every time she sees a white van or an England flag ... the government are very fortunate the opposition is such a shambles. Not good for the country obviously.
 


midnight_rendezvous

midnight_rendezvous

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
3,737
The Black Country
DumLum said:
Tell me how they are relevant if the nation has been totally destroyed?
Your examples of attacks on nuclear countries are by individuals and small groups not foreign govenments with massive firepower.
If you believe that no other country would ever want to invade us then you have to ignore all the history for the last thousand years. There have been so many wars in the last 60 years on this planet but nobody has said "I know let's invade Russia, America, France, China or GB." Yes there are countries that get by just fine but most of them have very strong alliances with a nuclear power. Alliances don't last forever though so it's a mistake to relay on them.
An imbalance in power if not in your favour is a massive gamble.
Click to expand...

What you seem to fail to grasp is that what you are afraid of is totally hypothetical and the chances of it actually happening are so remote it’s laughable. However, an underfunded NHS, starving children, food banks, railway chaos, welfare cuts and austerity et al are ACTUALLY happening right now. So forgive me if I don’t panic over the fact of a hypothetical future that will never happen and focus on what is actually happening to our country right now in the real world.
 






clapham_gull

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,308
Bry Nylon said:
Also because he is anti-semetic to his very core and each time he attempts to dispove this he somehow seems to cement his anti-semitism even further.
Click to expand...
I don't think he is at all. He is just cemented to a grass roots section of the party that has (rightly) campaigned for Palestine.

Within those ranks are obviously some who believe:

a) The problem would go away if Israel didn't exist and

b) Have somehow morphed their socialist views with conspiracy theories.

He simply hasn't the political clout to sort then up. He is in a similar situation to May thinking that the solution is some sort of compromise over wording.

Both leaders are effectively in charge of fractured coalitions.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk
 


M

Mayonaise

Well-known member
May 25, 2014
2,114
Haywards Heath
vegster said:
Compared to May ? a woman who can't hold her own party and cabinet together. I think " Suicide " is a pretty ridiculous suggestion compared to how the Tories have recapitalised the banks, who were the creators of the last financial crisis, at the expense of millions who are living for the next pay packet.

They have had no qualms about pushing millions in to debt and uncertainty regarding their future care by the NHS and Social Services, thousands more having their meagre DLA's slashed while holding the purse strings of the 5th biggest economy in the world.

When I was young, there were plenty of poor people but we all worked hard and eked out a living, there were NO Food Banks ? Housing existed and was affordable, we got a pension that would cover most of the costs of retirement. Now too many exist on poor wages with overpriced rental accommodation with little hope of improving their lot.

I come from a time when you usually always had a pay rise annually, if times were hard it was less than inflation but you always got something, now the norm seems to be work harder, "you are lucky to have a job you know" …. I work for a big High Street name and we were supposed to have pay reviews in June, two people were sacked in April for " not being exceptional " in their work, another one was effectively constructively dismissed but we have no union so we shook our heads and sighed and wished her well in the future. Consequently one or two people had " Reviews" but the 90% who didn't obviously did not feel comfortable about asking...

You say "Corbyn will be suicide " and I will quote an old proverb from the far east.... " Better to die on your feet than to live your life on your knees "
Click to expand...

If you read my entire post dispassionately, you will determine that I agree with everything you are saying about the current incumbents. Like the post that followed mine, I am neither blindly Tory or Labour but rather prefer to look at what is on offer in the best interests of our people, and the needs of the country at the time.

There have been good politicians on all sides of the political divide over the years but I dont see anybody, from the current crop in either party, fit to lead to lead our nation ATM. Putting policy to one side, IMO Jeremy Corbyn is a terrible party leader and would be a disaster as a Prime Minister.
 






midnight_rendezvous

midnight_rendezvous

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
3,737
The Black Country
Bry Nylon said:
Also because he is anti-semetic to his very core and each time he attempts to dispove this he somehow seems to cement his anti-semitism even further.
Click to expand...

And your evidence for this smear is? ???
 


TSB

TSB

Captain Hindsight
Jul 7, 2003
17,666
Lansdowne Place, Hove
Pavilionaire said:
Labour would be stupid to put in a long - term replacement now. They should bide their time until the autumn when Deal or No Deal will be sorted., then they should ditch Corbyn and have Tom Watson in as caretaker and let him change Labour's position to a Second Referendum. After that point they should bring in Starmer or Umunna.
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They should but they won't.
There's very few politicans (or general public, in fact) less electable than May and Corbyn is one of them.
Neither main 'leader' can handle their own party.
No-one...with any power... serves my centrist views in Westminster. It's a joke. I'd vote SNP if I could. Just to avoid propping up those *****.
 




TSB

TSB

Captain Hindsight
Jul 7, 2003
17,666
Lansdowne Place, Hove
midnight_rendezvous said:
Yet he is the person who has been twice chosen by the membership to lead the Labour Party (both landslide victories).
Click to expand...

Because it's completely rigged.
Momentum and the other union ***** will vote for the biggest lefty loon and anyone with any ounce of objectivity is stuck with whatever they want.
 


vegster

vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,892
Mayonaise said:
If you read my entire post dispassionately, you will determine that I agree with everything you are saying about the current incumbents. Like the post that followed mine, I am neither blindly Tory or Labour but rather prefer to look at what is on offer in the best interests of our people, and the needs of the country at the time.

There have been good politicians on all sides of the political divide over the years but I dont see anybody, from the current crop in either party, fit to lead to lead our nation ATM. Putting policy to one side, IMO Theresa May is a terrible politician and is a disaster as a Prime Ministerr.
Click to expand...

Corrected for you.
 


ken tiler

ken tiler

Active member
Nov 24, 2007
323
Brighton
Deportivo Seagull said:
Stop trying to defend the indefensible. This isn’t acceptable in any party let alone labour, trying to sweep it under the table because its causing the party problems is just unacceptable.
Click to expand...

Sweep what under the table? - can you give me an example of what you mean - I find this whole labour anti-semitism thing baffling.
 






DumLum

DumLum

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2009
3,772
West, West, West Sussex.
midnight_rendezvous said:
What you seem to fail to grasp is that what you are afraid of is totally hypothetical and the chances of it actually happening are so remote it’s laughable. However, an underfunded NHS, starving children, food banks, railway chaos, welfare cuts and austerity et al are ACTUALLY happening right now. So forgive me if I don’t panic over the fact of a hypothetical future that will never happen and focus on what is actually happening to our country right now in the real world.
Click to expand...

How I wish it was hypothetical. The nuclear war clock is currently two minutes to midnight.
 




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