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[News] France's Macron brings back national service



W

Worthing exile

New member
May 12, 2009
1,219
I did 5 years in the RAF in the 70s. While not National Service, it still had the drill, the bull and the bullying.
While I wasn't like most of the hopeless youth of today, hanging around on street corners, I had scraped through School and had no direction. I came out with a sense of discipline and knew pretty much what career I wanted and am still doing it over 30 years later.
I would not advocate 2 years of square bashing like the 1950s. The world has moved on from there.
A modern National Service in my mind should be a disciplined 'Apprentiship' at 16 for those that don't have a proper job or are moving to further education. Yes they should be sent away to a military style base to learn discipline, comradeship and to 'grow up' but also to learn a proper trade and come out employable as a person and with a qualification.
 




Kalimantan Gull

Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,923
Central Borneo / the Lizard
dingodan said:
Since when is pro-independance a purely right wing ideal? Because UKIP?

Is the SNP right wing? Is Catalonia full of right wingers? Doesn't exactly work does it.

It's like saying that being pro a "united Europe" is a purely facsist ideal because of Hitler.

Stop trying to pigeon hole people who have different views from you, plenty of people voted for Brexit and are not and never have been right wing or pro conscription.

I'm sorry that you can't just label everyone on the other side of the argument with a negative stereotype, but - you can't. Sorry.
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Brexiteers do seem to be very right wing, or at least the Daily Mail faction of the right wing. There are plenty of Labour voters who voted to leave the EU, but they don't seem to be 'Brexiteers', i.e. the kind of rabid people that keep the arguments going for 1,000's of pages on NSC. That's just my observation.

Having said that my father-in-law is a classic Daily Mail reading, pro-national service kind of right-winger; and he voted to Remain, so I take the point that there are exceptions to every stereotype.

But of course being pro-independence has absolutely nothing in common with being in the EU, very different concepts. SNP are pro-independence, pro-EU. Catalans are pro-independence, anti-EU, although the current Catalan leadership is right-wing, incidentally.
 


N

Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
Kalimantan Gull said:
Brexiteers do seem to be very right wing, or at least the Daily Mail faction of the right wing. There are plenty of Labour voters who voted to leave the EU, but they don't seem to be 'Brexiteers', i.e. the kind of rabid people that keep the arguments going for 1,000's of pages on NSC. That's just my observation.

Having said that my father-in-law is a classic Daily Mail reading, pro-national service kind of right-winger; and he voted to Remain, so I take the point that there are exceptions to every stereotype.

But of course being pro-independence has absolutely nothing in common with being in the EU, very different concepts. SNP are pro-independence, pro-EU. Catalans are pro-independence, anti-EU, although the current Catalan leadership is right-wing, incidentally.
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I have only ever seen the word 'Brexiteer' applied to people who wish to leave the EU. That would include myself, the current leader of the Labour Party, many more on the left wing of British politics and incidentally many people from ethnic minorities.It was actually the left that opposed EU membership, in opposition to the Tories and their big business friends. The Tories have since driven membership deeper, partiucularly with their Single Market idea and subsequent Enlargement policy to draw more and more people into their free market, capitalist dream. This is the reason Socialists oppose membership. You have listed a number of exceptions to the lazy stereotyping and I have given you some more. If the language has moved on and' Brexiteer' no longer applies to myself and the others I have mentioned then fine but perhaps people should stop using it to apply to everyone when it suits to sling cheap insults.
 


S

Saunders

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2017
2,292
Brighton
Thunder Bolt said:
Have you read the article? France bringing back National Service is not all about military service.
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Yes the post I responded to was stating that France was independently going down this route whilst being in the EU. I am pointing out the bigger picture that if the European army goes ahead and without us being there to argue against it, it is highly likely to go ahead. So all these extra recruits will be going into that army so its not quite the plucky independent France in that case. Anyway I promised myself not to get involved in politics on this board I should have kept to it.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Saunders said:
Yes the post I responded to was stating that France was independently going down this route whilst being in the EU. I am pointing out the bigger picture that if the European army goes ahead and without us being there to argue against it, it is highly likely to go ahead. So all these extra recruits will be going into that army so its not quite the plucky independent France in that case. Anyway I promised myself not to get involved in politics on this board I should have kept to it.
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The reason I mentioned the article is that the French national service, includes charity work, community service and voluntary work for 6 weeks, NOT military service, unless the youngster requests it.
 




C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,744
studio150 said:
Yes but Brexiters were all about bringing back control and governing ourselves and there is France doing just that while still in the EU. Maybe that's the point the OP was making.
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France has a long history of conscription, as do many other European states, (in whatever form they were before now) so it should not be a surprise that a French President would revert to type.

In GB conscription was reviled and when introduced in WW1 it was considered to be un-British and therefore politically difficult. It was less contentious in WW2 and my old man did it it in Malaya as an 18yo fighting the communists.

It’s not really a Brexit point in my view beyond demonstrating the mentality of the continentals, of which Macron is currently a poster boy. Let’s be clear, he didn’t have it as a policy before his election did he?
 


Hamilton

Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
12,454
Brighton
cunning fergus said:
France has a long history of conscription, as do many other European states, (in whatever form they were before now) so it should not be a surprise that a French President would revert to type.

In GB conscription was reviled and when introduced in WW1 it was considered to be un-British and therefore politically difficult. It was less contentious in WW2 and my old man did it it in Malaya as an 18yo fighting the communists.

It’s not really a Brexit point in my view beyond demonstrating the mentality of the continentals, of which Macron is currently a poster boy. Let’s be clear, he didn’t have it as a policy before his election did he?
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“The mentality of continentals”

Good grief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 






Seagull73

Seagull73

Sienna's Heaven
Jul 26, 2003
3,382
Not Lewes
Neville's Breakfast said:
I have only ever seen the word 'Brexiteer' applied to people who wish to leave the EU. That would include myself, the current leader of the Labour Party, many more on the left wing of British politics and incidentally many people from ethnic minorities.It was actually the left that opposed EU membership, in opposition to the Tories and their big business friends. The Tories have since driven membership deeper, partiucularly with their Single Market idea and subsequent Enlargement policy to draw more and more people into their free market, capitalist dream. This is the reason Socialists oppose membership. You have listed a number of exceptions to the lazy stereotyping and I have given you some more. If the language has moved on and' Brexiteer' no longer applies to myself and the others I have mentioned then fine but perhaps people should stop using it to apply to everyone when it suits to sling cheap insults.
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Actually, one of the reasons we are so entrenched in the EU is the deeper integration that Tony Blair signed off on for the Lisbon Treaty. You may remember that there was uproar at the time because it was felt like so much was being signed-off, including the role of the ECJ and other institutions that he should have called a referendum on it. But he refused on the basis that he was the elected leader of the country and should be trusted to represent the views of the country. Got that a bit wrong didn't he, much like many other things he thought he knew best about.

Yes the initial driving of the membership of the EEC and EU was originally a Tory-driven idea - that deeper integration accelerated between 1997-2010.
 


JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
cunning fergus said:
France has a long history of conscription, as do many other European states, (in whatever form they were before now) so it should not be a surprise that a French President would revert to type.

In GB conscription was reviled and when introduced in WW1 it was considered to be un-British and therefore politically difficult. It was less contentious in WW2 and my old man did it it in Malaya as an 18yo fighting the communists.

It’s not really a Brexit point in my view beyond demonstrating the mentality of the continentals, of which Macron is currently a poster boy. Let’s be clear, he didn’t have it as a policy before his election did he?
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Indeed, Macron has been championed by the remoaner crew as a sensible, centrist European .. the future of the EU. Whereas he has waged war on the unions in France and brought back conscription if any UK politician had acted in a similar way the wave of bile and vitriol from the Guardian/remoaner set would be tsunami-like. See cognitive dissonance.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
JC Footy Genius said:
Indeed, Macron has been championed by the remoaner crew as a sensible, centrist European .. the future of the EU. Whereas he has waged war on the unions in France and brought back conscription if any UK politician had acted in a similar way the wave of bile and vitriol from the Guardian/remoaner set would be tsunami-like. See cognitive dissonance.
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Conscription is a very different thing to national service for a few weeks which includes community and charity work.
 








Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
JC Footy Genius said:
Indeed, Macron has been championed by the remoaner crew as a sensible, centrist European .. the future of the EU. Whereas he has waged war on the unions in France and brought back conscription if any UK politician had acted in a similar way the wave of bile and vitriol from the Guardian/remoaner set would be tsunami-like. See cognitive dissonance.
Click to expand...

JC Footy Genius said:
Who suggested this was the same as national service?
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National Service involves conscription ie you can't get out of military service at 18 or you can defer it to 21 if you're going to uni. You used the word conscription.

What Macron is bringing in, is called National Service, but a very different sort, where 16 year olds can do a bit military training if they choose, but there is also options for community or charity work.

Very different.
 




JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Thunder Bolt said:
National Service involves conscription ie you can't get out of military service at 18 or you can defer it to 21 if you're going to uni. You used the word conscription.

What Macron is bringing in, is called National Service, but a very different sort, where 16 year olds can do a bit military training if they choose, but there is also options for community or charity work.

Very different.
Click to expand...

Yes I used the word conscription .. and didn't mention national service. Macron is introducing a scheme with a compulsory element ..correct?
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
JC Footy Genius said:
Yes I used the word conscription .. and didn't mention national service. Macron is introducing a scheme with a compulsory element ..correct?
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Oxford English dictionary.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/conscription

Compulsory enlistment for state service, typically into the armed forces.

‘conscription was extended to married men’

Early 19th century: via French (conscription was introduced in France in 1798), from late Latin conscriptio(n-) ‘levying of troops’, from Latin conscribere ‘write down together, enrol’, from con- ‘together’ + scribere ‘write’.
 












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