[Technology] OFFICIAL Agile Project Management Thread

Iggle Piggle · Jun 26, 2018

If I read another post about Agile Project management in the Bell cheeses thread, I'm going to lash my laptop against the wall in a very agile way *

Fill your boots in here. Leave the other thread to Crisps and the merits of eating pastys at your desk.

* I may have posted the odd one myself but please do not pull me up on my double standards.

Jim D · Jun 26, 2018

I used to be quite an agile project manager but I'm not so much now I'm older.

OzMike · Jun 26, 2018

I was an agile project manager till 3 hours ago when I was told that the job was going to be terminated at the end of this week. :nono:

OzMike · Jun 26, 2018

Still pretty agile for a 58 year old.

highflyer · Jun 26, 2018

Ok. So what actually IS it then?

I follow the bellcheese thread with immense dedication and I am still none the wiser.

Munkfish · Jun 26, 2018

I work with agile project management, Its a bit cheesy and our sprint reviews are total cringe, but I do get the concept behind it, It works much better when you are trying to develop a new technology apposed to just a business enchancement.

Beach Hut · Jun 26, 2018

No different from Prince 2 PM which was just common sense

Tricky Dicky · Jun 26, 2018

Munkfish said:
I work with agile project management, Its a bit cheesy and our sprint reviews are total cringe, but I do get the concept behind it, It works much better when you are trying to develop a new technology apposed to just a business enchancement.

I've worked with it at 3 different places and I've seen it done poorly, but I have also seen it done really well - we got a lot out of it, but you do need everyone to buy into it. In my 35 years in software, I picked up some of the best techniques I've come across.

Munkfish · Jun 26, 2018

Tricky Dicky said:
I've worked with it at 3 different places and I've seen it done poorly, but I have also seen it done really well - we got a lot out of it, but you do need everyone to buy into it. In my 35 years in software, I picked up some of the best techniques I've come across.

Agreed, my old boss didnt get on with it at all and it made almost every project fall down, as he wanted everything done in a waterful structure with an Agile approach, which just didnt work, nothing would ever be delivered on time. I found it hugely frustrating.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jun 26, 2018

Beach Hut said:
No different from Prince 2 PM which was just common sense

Apart from you get to be super duper dynamic and hold meetings where you (seriously) all stand up and you get to hold a cuddly toy when it's your turn to talk. Might be doing it an injustice tho. Has it become less wanky recently?

portlock seagull · Jun 26, 2018

Beach Hut said:
No different from Prince 2 PM which was just common sense

You say that, but if common sense prevailed, there'd be no need for a controlling methodology. Having got my P2, and being a cynic beforehand, I learnt a whole new respect for it. People who dismiss, as I did, more than likely just didn't get it probably born out of, dare I say, plain ignorance and even arrogance. Perhaps all both. Ironically those traits are amongst very good reasons that many projects fail. The no.1 reason, of course, being they weren't achievable in the first place.

portlock seagull · Jun 26, 2018

Tricky Dicky said:
I've worked with it at 3 different places and I've seen it done poorly, but I have also seen it done really well - we got a lot out of it, but you do need everyone to buy into it. In my 35 years in software, I picked up some of the best techniques I've come across.

This - like everything, if you've got people pulling against, sometimes out of an inferiority complex and lack of respect instead of trying to understand, it's going to be an uphill challenge from the start. Out of interest, I always think a project you're going to run using P2 should start by explaining the basics of to the project stakeholders - least it's going to help as most haven't a clue about what a project is and more importantly isn't.

Interestingly, speaking to a business currently who have failed first time around and now want to appoint a qualified P2 manager to run / do again. They recognised they failed because they didn't run as a project from the beginning, more a trust in luck is how I interpreted in hindsight. I'm still not convinced they've learnt their lesson so I'm not sure I will accept their invitation even if offered later this week. We shall see...

mikeyjh · Jun 26, 2018

highflyer said:
Ok. So what actually IS it then?

I follow the bellcheese thread with immense dedication and I am still none the wiser.

A project management methodolgy that once you're brainwashed in to the cult, you will believe is the answer to all problems. World hunger, Brexit, organising your summer holidays etc. See also, Waterfall, Prince, Kanban. Oh, and Six Sigma.

essbee1 · Jun 26, 2018

Munkfish said:
Agreed, my old boss didnt get on with it at all and it made almost every project fall down, as he wanted everything done in a waterful structure with an Agile approach, which just didnt work, nothing would ever be delivered on time. I found it hugely frustrating.

Waterfall laddie, waterfall.

thedonkeycentrehalf · Jun 27, 2018

Agile doesn't suit all projects but sadly some senior managers decide that they want to jump on the agile bandwagon and use it where it is not suitable. Worse still is where they use it where it is suitable but then don't like the way it works and start trying to mix waterfall back in as that is their safety net and then wonder why it doesn't work.

clapham_gull · Jun 28, 2018

Enables technology departments to supply a pile of steaming dog shit on time and to budget, whilst giving them the excuse to blame users for changing their requirements due their relentless "workshop-ing"

Basically its just "words" and not to be fooled by.

Stand Up - We are having a very short meeting.

Sprint - We are doing some work very fast safe in the knowledge we will introduce some bugs to help our mates out in the testing department who haven't got much on at the moment.

Minimal Viable Product - Yes it's a spreadsheet, coloured headings weren't a user requirement.

User Stories - We just re-engineer what you have already and call it a different name. Give us a couple of years and we will redefine it as a legacy system and go through the process again.

FamilyGuy · Jun 28, 2018

clapham_gull said:
Enables technology departments to supply a pile of steaming dog shit on time and to budget, whilst giving them the excuse to blame users for changing their requirements due their relentless "workshop-ing"

Basically its just "words" and not to be fooled by.

Stand Up - We are having a very short meeting.

Sprint - We are doing some work very fast safe in the knowledge we will introduce some bugs to help our mates out in the testing department who haven't got much on at the moment.

Minimal Viable Product - Yes it's a spreadsheet, coloured headings weren't a user requirement.

Use Stories - We just re-engineer what you have already and call it a different name. Give us a couple of years and we will reciting it as a legacy system and go through the process again.

It's unfortunate if this is your experience and understanding of "Agile" and perhaps indicates that the people around you don't fully understand (or maybe don't want to understand) how it can/should deliver benefit.

In my practical experience, and having recently retired from an IT career of some 52 years, Agile can and does work and delivers tangible benefit and progress. It's not always easy, but in my experience it genuinely does work.

In 52 years I've worked with many "new IT systems", and in my practical experience, Agile is the one thing that I can look back on with confidence.

Shropshire Seagull · Jun 28, 2018

It's horses for courses ...

I qualified as a PMP with PMI in 2002 and Prince practitioner in 2008 having first got involved in IT in the 1980s
Now been project / programme managing for almost 20 years.

Agile [I first met it as RAD under DSDM in the early 1990s has its place, but as mentioned above, only if it is done properly. But it is NOT always the right way to do it. It lends itself well to software development projects but with infrastructure delivery, I strongly advocate a full and complete design is prepared before any tin is purchased and commissioned.

The exciting projects I've done over the last few years have been transformational upgrading/enhancing software and toolstack [DEVOPS] whilst also migrating P-2-V - some of this can be Agile but some of it MUST be waterfall.

dazzer6666 · Jun 28, 2018

Tom Hark said:
Apart from you get to be super duper dynamic and hold meetings where you (seriously) all stand up and you get to hold a cuddly toy when it's your turn to talk. Might be doing it an injustice tho. Has it become less wanky recently?

Calling @Dr No

timbha · Jun 28, 2018

Shropshire Seagull said:
The exciting projects I've done over the last few years have been transformational upgrading/enhancing software and toolstack [DEVOPS] whilst also migrating P-2-V - some of this can be Agile but some of it MUST be waterfall.

Back to the bell cheese thread .........

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[Technology] OFFICIAL Agile Project Management Thread