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[Travel] #OneNorth - Northern newspapers take a stand against poor train service



A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,718
Deepest, darkest Sussex
[TWEET]1003876394298945536[/TWEET]

Refreshing to see something like this, and can see why the Government would be concerned. However, the north isn't really something most Tory Governments really give a damn about. Given the atrocious service currently on offer in the south, and the fact much of it is true Tory heartland territory, imagine how much impact a "One South" type movement among all the local papers in areas impacted down here (basically all of Sussex among most of the Home Counties).

Has to be worth a go, surely? Nobody seems to actually be listening.
 




Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
20,989
The arse end of Hangleton
The first thing that needs to happen is that Grayling and Horton are given the boot.
 




Official Old Man

Official Old Man

Uckfield Seagull
Aug 27, 2011
8,530
Brighton
Something I noticed this morning was the new sewer London was getting, £4 billion, cross rail £8 billion, HS2 £? billion and now Heathrow £150+ billion. I'd be annoyed if I was a northerner.
 


The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
A1X said:
[TWEET]1003876394298945536[/TWEET]

Refreshing to see something like this, and can see why the Government would be concerned. However, the north isn't really something most Tory Governments really give a damn about. Given the atrocious service currently on offer in the south, and the fact much of it is true Tory heartland territory, imagine how much impact a "One South" type movement among all the local papers in areas impacted down here (basically all of Sussex among most of the Home Counties).

Has to be worth a go, surely? Nobody seems to actually be listening.
Click to expand...

ABC has been campaigning for the past three years, even bringing a (partly) successful court case against the Department for Transport. They are also campaigning for full access for all passengers, rather than the policy of not allowing disabled passengers on if it will make the train late, or if there is no-one trained to use the ramp, or if the destination station is unmanned.

However, in the great scheme of things, very few have been listening, especially the media, who are still portraying Grayling as the man for the job while vilifying and/or ignoring passenger groups - especially disabled groups. Even last week, 5 Live Drive asked the ASLEF Gen Sec if this latest timetable cock-up was really 'unofficial strike action'. Words fail me.

Westdene Seagull said:
The first thing that needs to happen is that Grayling and Horton are given the boot.
Click to expand...

Fully agree, though in the context of the OP, this is nothing to do with Horton. It seems that train-buggery for passengers is now a national policy rather just a SASTA issue.
 




J

jasetheace

New member
Apr 13, 2011
712
Now like many, I am tailoring my route to be more Victoria centric. Many avoiding Thameslink altogether. Southern and Gatwick Express much busier recent days (followed of course by the mandatory shortening of those trains!)

So a complete Kop-Out really and allows them to get away with it a bit but hey what can you do?

Getting that parliamentary petition beyond 100,000 will help a little in term of pressure.

Before I say the next bit, I should say that I 95% blame the operators and Network Rail for all of this. 2.5% the Government for not enough oversight. But I suspect we must hold back 2.5% as I suspect the Unions may be enjoying themselves at the expense of others here. That said, I can't say I blame them for a bit of mischief.
 


The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
jasetheace said:
Before I say the next bit, I should say that I 95% blame the operators and Network Rail for all of this. 2.5% the Government for not enough oversight. But I suspect we must hold back 2.5% as I suspect the Unions may be enjoying themselves at the expense of others here. That said, I can't say I blame them for a bit of mischief.
Click to expand...

This is an entirely government-led problem. There is nothing GTR nor Network Rail can do in terms of implementing policy without government sign-off. The principle issue of this latest cock-up is about the lack of trained drivers - they don't exist. Even the rail companies themselves highlighted this issue to the government, and they were told to still go ahead.

That's not to say that GTR don't carry a huge amount of blame - of course they do, but the unions (reference their communication with the DfT in 2014 saying that GTR were short-staffed), foresaw all of this, went on strike about this as well as the whole notion of DOO (which is now to blame for some disabled people not being allowed on trains), and they and and passenger groups were shown to be right all along.

And your best shot is to think they're enjoying the discomfort of the passengers.
 






S.T.U cgull

S.T.U cgull

Active member
Jan 17, 2009
435
HILLLLLLL
jasetheace said:
Now like many, I am tailoring my route to be more Victoria centric. Many avoiding Thameslink altogether. Southern and Gatwick Express much busier recent days (followed of course by the mandatory shortening of those trains!)

So a complete Kop-Out really and allows them to get away with it a bit but hey what can you do?

Getting that parliamentary petition beyond 100,000 will help a little in term of pressure.

Before I say the next bit, I should say that I 95% blame the operators and Network Rail for all of this. 2.5% the Government for not enough oversight. But I suspect we must hold back 2.5% as I suspect the Unions may be enjoying themselves at the expense of others here. That said, I can't say I blame them for a bit of mischief.
Click to expand...

Have changed my route to Charing Cross (via London Bridge), to now go to Victoria and onward to Embankment at a cost of an extra £60 or so a month. Not ideal financially, but forced into it by an utter lack of reliability on getting to work / back home on time
 


Kalimantan Gull

Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,922
Central Borneo / the Lizard
I've been trying to work out where the problems lie with the railways, and whether re-nationalisation is the answer, and can't say I have come to a conclusion, but some interesting facts out there:

450px-GBR_rail_passengers_by_year_1830-2015.png
Rail Passengers in Great Britain from 1829–2016

300px-Rail_modal_share.png
Rail modal share (rail's share of total travel) 1952–2016

More people than ever before using the railways. Although the uptick corresponds with privatisation, possibly more due to rising fuel costs, low unemployment and recovery from recession. But still

300px-Rail_fatalities_of_European_countries.png
Rail fatalities per billion passenger-km in European countries

Britain has the safest railways in Europe

300px-Real_terms_rail_prices_per_passenger-km.PNG
Real terms rail fares per passenger-km (1986–2012)

Costs haven't gone up as much as might think

300px-Percentage_of_UK_rail_costs_covered_by_subsidy_1986-2014.png
Percentage of UK rail costs covered by subsidy 1986-2014

whilst subsidies are low, now that impact of Hatfield crash is out of the system. Train operating costs have reduced by 20% since privatisation

There's more jobs in the industry than before privatisation, more trains, more services, and apparently customer satisfaction (as of 2013) was highest in Europe

As a lefty-leaner, I've been vehement about re-nationalisation, but probably driven by ideology more than anything, and now looking at these figures it doesn't seem like re-nationalisation is the answer.

So what has gone so horribly wring with the trains over the past four years?
 


J

jasetheace

New member
Apr 13, 2011
712
The Large One said:
This is an entirely government-led problem. There is nothing GTR nor Network Rail can do in terms of implementing policy without government sign-off. The principle issue of this latest cock-up is about the lack of trained drivers - they don't exist. Even the rail companies themselves highlighted this issue to the government, and they were told to still go ahead.

That's not to say that GTR don't carry a huge amount of blame - of course they do, but the unions (reference their communication with the DfT in 2014 saying that GTR were short-staffed), foresaw all of this, went on strike about this as well as the whole notion of DOO (which is now to blame for some disabled people not being allowed on trains), and they and and passenger groups were shown to be right all along.

And your best shot is to think they're enjoying the discomfort of the passengers.
Click to expand...

Grayling claims that the operators told him not so long ago that this WAS deliverable.
 






Hamilton

Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
12,452
Brighton
The Large One said:
ABC has been campaigning for the past three years, even bringing a (partly) successful court case against the Department for Transport. They are also campaigning for full access for all passengers, rather than the policy of not allowing disabled passengers on if it will make the train late, or if there is no-one trained to use the ramp, or if the destination station is unmanned.

However, in the great scheme of things, very few have been listening, especially the media, who are still portraying Grayling as the man for the job while vilifying and/or ignoring passenger groups - especially disabled groups. Even last week, 5 Live Drive asked the ASLEF Gen Sec if this latest timetable cock-up was really 'unofficial strike action'. Words fail me.



Fully agree, though in the context of the OP, this is nothing to do with Horton. It seems that train-buggery for passengers is now a national policy rather just a SASTA issue.
Click to expand...

Horton is CEO of GTR and not just Sasta. As much as the train operators will try to say that Network Rail produced the timetable, they were fully consulted and signed up to it.

Horton moves from failure to failure. He is like Voldemort. Never seen. A dark presence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


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