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[Politics] The Battle For Britain's Heroes



erkan

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2004
896
Eastbourne
On C4 at the moment.

How should we deal with heroes dark pasts?

Churchill's affirmed racism and Nelson's advocacy of slavery can surely not just be ignored...?

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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patreon
Oct 8, 2003
49,347
Faversham
time to move on.....
 












portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
16,981
I think we should carry on rewriting history in the absence of anything more important to do as a nation.
 


heathgate

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Apr 13, 2015
3,441
On C4 at the moment.

How should we deal with heroes dark pasts?

Churchill's affirmed racism and Nelson's advocacy of slavery can surely not just be ignored...?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Dig their bones up, throw them in the Tower,..... get Corbyn and Abbott to orchestrate a retrospective compensation claim...... [emoji41][emoji41]

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beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,265
obviously all the other social issues have been resolved.
 








Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
10,872
Crawley
Very few people are without flaws, even I have a character fault, I am far too modest.
 






GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,483
Gloucester
Oh dear, once again someone is demonstrating that they don't understand the idiocy of trying to judge historical figures by the ethics and mores of the present day It's just stupid. Was Nelson in favour of slavery? Yes, of course he was, it was the way of the world at the time - anti-slavery views were at best in their infancy; did Rhodes believe in white supremacy? Of course he bloody did - he would have been taught that right the way through his upbringing and education.
They still performed great deeds. You can take any number of people who have been heroes of British history (and probably the same for anybody else's history) and then pick out things they did which wouldn't be acceptable today. Drake, Raleigh, William the Conqueror, Boadicea - and countless more - you really wouldn't want to bump into on a dark night these days!
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,017
On C4 at the moment.

How should we deal with heroes dark pasts?

Churchill's affirmed racism and Nelson's advocacy of slavery can surely not just be ignored...?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

The way we deal with this is to consider for a short while the context the surrounded said heroes. Then things suddenly don't look so bad.

It is madness to judge people by standards outside of those which they live. We wouldn't judge ourselves by the moral code of other times in history so why suggest we should do it to others?

Ignored no, considered within context, yes.
 


Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 6, 2003
19,322
The way we deal with this is to consider for a short while the context the surrounded said heroes. Then things suddenly don't look so bad.

It is madness to judge people by standards outside of those which they live. We wouldn't judge ourselves by the moral code of other times in history so why suggest we should do it to others?

Ignored no, considered within context, yes.
Indeed. The point made above about Boudicca's (Boadicea) is a good one. There's a massive statue to her by Westminster Bridge, if you're going to get all judgemental surely that should be taken down? After all, this was a woman who ordered and took part in a massacre of unarmed men women and children in her sack of Colchester (amongst other places). She was a calculating, vengeful and brutal leader, not inclined to show mercy to anyone who crossed her. In other words she was very much of her time.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that views today we hold as 'normal' will be viewed with distaste by future generations. (Personally I'm waiting for trans race to gain acceptance).
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,017
Indeed. The point made above about Boudicca's (Boadicea) is a good one. There's a massive statue to her by Westminster Bridge, if you're going to get all judgemental surely that should be taken down? After all, this was a woman who ordered and took part in a massacre of unarmed men women and children in her sack of Colchester (amongst other places). She was a calculating, vengeful and brutal leader, not inclined to show mercy to anyone who crossed her. In other words she was very much of her time.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that views today we hold as 'normal' will be viewed with distaste by future generations. (Personally I'm waiting for trans race to gain acceptance).

I know it is stretching it a bit but to judge people from history out of their time and context is the same as picking a era from history and judging each other by that*. For example my boy should surely be burned at the steak for being left handed and therefore evil.

* Australia recently had the gay marriage referendum and this is exactly what people were doing with the bible and 'word of god'. I couldn't help but think that the word has god has surely been updated in the last 2000 year.
 




Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 6, 2003
19,322
I'm interested to see how this goes in America. There is an (understandable) backlash against Southern civil war figures - but what's the real social difference between George Washington and Robert E Lee? Washington was a slave-owner, are the Americans going to tear down every monument to Washington and rename their capital Potomacville?
 


Tyrone Biggums

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2006
13,498
Geelong, Australia
Indeed. The point made above about Boudicca's (Boadicea) is a good one. There's a massive statue to her by Westminster Bridge, if you're going to get all judgemental surely that should be taken down? After all, this was a woman who ordered and took part in a massacre of unarmed men women and children in her sack of Colchester (amongst other places). She was a calculating, vengeful and brutal leader, not inclined to show mercy to anyone who crossed her. In other words she was very much of her time.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that views today we hold as 'normal' will be viewed with distaste by future generations. (Personally I'm waiting for trans race to gain acceptance).

Actually she'd be OK in their eyes I expect. She was part of the Indigenous peoples.

More akin to a Chief Sitting Bull. He's still held in much esteem.
 



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