[Travel] Does anyone on here own a Electric or Hybrid car?

Papa Lazarou · Apr 25, 2018

My old car has just failed its MOT quite significantly, and it'll cost over £1k to get it back on the road. It's 17 years old, so it's probably time to bid it a fond farewell, and move onto the next one.

We already have a Ford SMax for long journeys / holidays (there are 4 of us and a dog) but I need something for commuting to work (short drive to and from the station) plus local trips and short days out. It needs to seat 4 people, plus at a push the dog in the boot.

I was pondering whether now was the time to dive into the Hybrid / Plug In / Electric market... there is an increasing number of options across the ranges involved, from the all electric e-Golf and Leaf to the more numerous Hybrid configurations.

So, I was hoping to get some insight from the gestalt entity that is NSC on the collective experience of owning any of these... is it still a little early (should I wait until the NEXT car) or should I go for it.

Over to you, NSC.

Goldstone1976 · Apr 25, 2018

I’d be interested in the responses to this too.

My personal view, based on next to no research, is that it’s too early to go fully electric, but that the hybrids are now valid options for most people. However, I’ve been surprised at how low the fuel economies of them seem to be - mid-40s seems to be about the norm. Huh? Why not mid-60s if they’re using a battery some of the time?

seagully · Apr 25, 2018

I have a 2012 Vauxhall Ampera which is basically a plug in hybrid with range extender (you can run pure electric but petrol generator kicks in once battery is depleted). I absolutely love it and don't think I would ever go back to a petrol/diesel car. If I were you I would think about holding out until late 2018/early 2019 though as the next gen batteries look very impressive in terms of range

This is what I'm looking at for my next car

https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric

Papa Lazarou · Apr 25, 2018

seagully said:
I have a 2012 Vauxhall Ampera which is basically a plug in hybrid with range extender (you can run pure electric but petrol generator kicks in once battery is depleted). I absolutely love it and don't think I would ever go back to a petrol/diesel car. If I were you I would think about holding out until late 2018/early 2019 though as the next gen batteries look very impressive in terms of range

This is what I'm looking at for my next car

https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric

Thank you - yes, the battery capacity seems to be (as with most things) the limiting factor. For example the new 2018 Nissan Leaf has a 50KWh battery, which although better than the original Leaf battery of up to 40, it's hardly ground-breaking. I know Tesla are bringing out much bigger batteries, but that's not this year.

The 2019 models may be able to get up to 300 miles per charge, which would be very practical.

Chicken Run · Apr 25, 2018

No I don’t.

Don Parasol · Apr 25, 2018

We got the latest Prius - for my wife mainly as she needs to get a large pram in the boot when she's alone with the boys. I can't recommend it highly enough. We needed a large boot and good fuel efficiency, and looked at several family/mid-range competitors, of which the Prius came out on top.

We nearly never have to fill it up with petrol, and we don't pay the congestion charge in London. Toyota have been making it for over 15 years I think, so unlike some other manufacturers it's tried and tested. It's not like buying a total plug-in, where I can see why you would have reservations about being a little early.

Aside from the above it's great to drive and really well put together. It's a bigger car than it looks - larger than say a Golf, and I prefer driving it to my larger car I need for work. I won't be buying another petrol/diesel when mine needs replacing.

Papa Lazarou · Apr 25, 2018

Chicken Run said:
No I don’t.

Thank you for your contribution to this discussion. :clap2:

Goldstone1976 · Apr 25, 2018

seagully said:
I have a 2012 Vauxhall Ampera which is basically a plug in hybrid with range extender (you can run pure electric but petrol generator kicks in once battery is depleted). I absolutely love it and don't think I would ever go back to a petrol/diesel car. If I were you I would think about holding out until late 2018/early 2019 though as the next gen batteries look very impressive in terms of range

This is what I'm looking at for my next car

https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric

I’m open to being persuaded, but I have 3 concerns about fully electric cars:

1 the bigger battery version of the car you’re interested in says 300 miles range. I assume that, like all advertising, is hyperbolic in the real world - say 250 miles in reality. That’s less than I need for a round trip to a home game... so...

2 where, near the Amex (or any other ground) can I recharge? And...

3. How long does it take to charge?

My sense is that fully electric cars won’t become mainstream until the range truly matches most fuel-driven cars, say 400 miles (genuine) and they can be charged in, say, 15 minutes (only 3 times as long as it takes to fill up with petrol), at as many locations as there are currently petrol stations.

Unless and until that happens, won’t they remain largely used for short hops in and around home? Great for dropping the kids off, short commutes, or decent length runs to someone else’s home where you can charge up overnight; but useless for many other use scenarios...

No?

Papa Lazarou · Apr 25, 2018

Don Parasol said:
We got the latest Prius - for my wife mainly as she needs to get a large pram in the boot when she's alone with the boys. I can't recommend it highly enough. We needed a large boot and good fuel efficiency, and looked at several family/mid-range competitors, of which the Prius came out on top.

We nearly never have to fill it up with petrol, and we don't pay the congestion charge in London. Toyota have been making it for over 15 years I think, so unlike some other manufacturers it's tried and tested. It's not like buying a total plug-in, where I can see why you would have reservations about being a little early.

Aside from the above it's great to drive and really well put together. It's a bigger car than it looks - larger than say a Golf, and I prefer driving it to my larger car I need for work. I won't be buying another petrol/diesel when mine needs replacing.

Is your Prius a plug in hybrid?

beorhthelm · Apr 25, 2018

Papa Lazarou said:
Thank you - yes, the battery capacity seems to be (as with most things) the limiting factor. For example the new 2018 Nissan Leaf has a 50KWh battery, which although better than the original Leaf battery of up to 40, it's hardly ground-breaking. I know Tesla are bringing out much bigger batteries, but that's not this year.

The 2019 models may be able to get up to 300 miles per charge, which would be very practical.

for the scenario you gave, short commute, local trips, the battery life of current vehicles would seem fine. this is the idea use for electric, where petrol and especially diesel are most poorly suited.

The Andy Naylor Fan Club · Apr 25, 2018

seagully said:
I have a 2012 Vauxhall Ampera which is basically a plug in hybrid with range extender (you can run pure electric but petrol generator kicks in once battery is depleted). I absolutely love it and don't think I would ever go back to a petrol/diesel car. If I were you I would think about holding out until late 2018/early 2019 though as the next gen batteries look very impressive in terms of range

This is what I'm looking at for my next car

https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric

I too have thought about purchasing an electric car but am a little confused as to the batteries for the vehicle. Do you as the owner of the vehicle own them or do you pay a monthly leasing fee?
If you do own them, how much to replace them if they fail?
If you lease them, how much per month do they cost?

beorhthelm · Apr 25, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
My sense is that fully electric cars won’t become mainstream until the range truly matches most fuel-driven cars, say 400 miles (genuine) and they can be charged in, say, 15 minutes (only 3 times as long as it takes to fill up with petrol), at as many locations as there are currently petrol stations.

fully electric wont happen as things stand because of the burden on the electricity network. there would need to be wholesale change in battery technology and how we use/create electricity. there are grand ideas about solar panels charging battery banks to power your home and the car battery being treated as an extension of that system, but that fails to account for flats, non-perfect weather and willingness to change.

seagully · Apr 25, 2018

The Andy Naylor Fan Club said:
I too have thought about purchasing an electric car but am a little confused as to the batteries for the vehicle. Do you as the owner of the vehicle own them or do you pay a monthly leasing fee?
If you do own them, how much to replace them if they fail?
If you lease them, how much per month do they cost?

Depends on the manufacturer. I believe Renault charge a lease fee of c. £40 per month but in my car I own the battery (which has a 100k/8 year warranty with Vauxhall)

Triggaaar · Apr 25, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
1 the bigger battery version of the car you’re interested in says 300 miles range. I assume that, like all advertising, is hyperbolic in the real world - say 250 miles in reality. That’s less than I need for a round trip to a home game... so...

That's asking a lot. I think they're more suitable for people doing lots of small journeys.

My sense is that fully electric cars won’t become mainstream until the range truly matches most fuel-driven cars, say 400 miles (genuine) and they can be charged in, say, 15 minutes

That's asking the impossible (for now). Batteries get warm as they're charged, and charging them faster gets them warmer, and heat kills battery life.

Unless and until that happens, won’t they remain largely used for short hops in and around home? Great for dropping the kids off, short commutes, or decent length runs to someone else’s home where you can charge up overnight; but useless for many other use scenarios...

Yes. But you say 'short commutes' - most people don't drive over 200 miles to work.

studio150 · Apr 25, 2018

Goldstone1976 said:
2 where, near the Amex (or any other ground) can I recharge? And...

https://www.zap-map.com/live/

Goldstone1976 · Apr 25, 2018

Triggaaar said:
That's asking a lot. I think they're more suitable for people doing lots of small journeys.
That's asking the impossible (for now). Batteries get warm as they're charged, and charging them faster gets them warmer, and heat kills battery life.

Yes. But you say 'short commutes' - most people don't drive over 200 miles to work.

Yep - totally impossible with today’s technology and totally impossible with any currently foreseeable technology too.

You’re right to say that 200 miles is more than a short commute, of course, but, in order to fully replace a petrol car (or hybrid), they do have to be able to do what a petrol car can do - even if it’s rarely.

This is why I chose the example of a round trip to a football game. Say you live in Brighton, and want to drive to and from the City game - impossible in a fully electric car, no? Therefore - not that useful really...

Goldstone1976 · Apr 25, 2018

studio150 said:
https://www.zap-map.com/live/

Thanks! 1*3kw charging point in Sussex Uni. Otherwise central Brighton. I suspect a 3kw outlet would take quite a while to charge a car battery...?

Goldstone1976 · Apr 25, 2018

beorhthelm said:
for the scenario you gave, short commute, local trips, the battery life of current vehicles would seem fine. this is the idea use for electric, where petrol and especially diesel are most poorly suited.

Yep - this.

A hybrid however would appear to fit just about every scenario (I think)...

The Andy Naylor Fan Club · Apr 25, 2018

seagully said:
Depends on the manufacturer. I believe Renault charge a lease fee of c. £40 per month but in my car I own the battery (which has a 100k/8 year warranty with Vauxhall)

Ok.Thank you for your reply. For some reason I thought the leasing fees were a lot higher. Gives me something to consider now.

PoG · Apr 25, 2018

Until electric becomes cheaper its a no from me unfortunately.

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[Travel] Does anyone on here own a Electric or Hybrid car?

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