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[Football] 3-5-2 against Chelsea



Smudge1

New member
Jan 16, 2010
16
As witnessed today & over the last few weeks, with the players we currently have, we are now in a relegation battle. Our lack of goals scored & our habitual conceding from set pieces is a huge concern. CH says he has worked hard on defending set pieces. This to me raises a few issues 1. Are the coaches getting their tactics across properly to the players? 2. Are the players not taking the info on board? 3. Have the players lost respect for the coaches and have their own agenda? This does get me thinking if the coaching team have all got a bit cosy with the players. I know we went on to get promotion after Calderwood’s departure last season, but I feel in his tenure these defensive frailties wouldn’t have happened. He was a big, no nonsense Jock, who as we saw at the Boro away match, would not suffer fools gladly. Would he stand for these persistent failings? Would he get his point across better? Would his presence give the so called big time Charlie’s & some of the do as you like squad members something to think about & perhaps fear? I don’t personally know any of the coaching squad, but looking on to me, it all looks very comfortable. When you look at West Ham with Moyes, Pshyco & McKinlay. Everton with Allardyce, Lee & Duncan Disorderly, I just think maybe we are missing a bit of Backbone within the setup.
It’s clear something needs to change in order to stay in the PL. Next week against Chelsea is almost a free game. Chelsea aren’t in the best shape on the pitch, Conte is clearly at loggerheads with Abramovich. So perhaps CH has an opportunity to change the line up. Why not go 3 at the back with Uwe/CG, Duffy, Dunk. Wingbacks Schelotto & Suttner. Midfield of Stephens, Kayal/Propper, Gross. Strikers Murray & Baldock.
This defence has more physical presence. Although the wingbacks are both defenders I don’t think this is a bad thing as can’t see us outplaying these for 90mins, however both are capable of delivering crosses when attacking. Gross is currently overworked & covering far too much ground trying to support Muzza up top on his own. So with Baldocks introduction, he can get back to doing what he does best creating chances ahead of the other 2 Midfielders. Baldock caused problems as soon as he came on today with his pace, so he can get closer to Muzza to give their defence something to think about. Our 3 wingers are unfortunately, currently out of form so I don’t see them as a real loss. CH could maybe start 1 of the wingers for a wingback on 1 side only, if we wanted a bit more pace/trickery/goal threat? This would give us good options on the bench with wingers who could also replace Baldock if he was struggling. Hemed on for Murray, or you never know we might have some ‘FreshBlood’ by then!!! Why not try the wingers playing on their correct side, getting beyond the full back to the byline and crossing the ball in the box? When defending corners have an offensive player of ours on the half way line in order to take 2 of their players out of our box in order to make it less congested, so we can maybe win the ball and turn them round quicker.
Also with a cup game at Boro away following, it’s a perfect opportunity to get all the squad members trying this 3-5-2 system out in that match as well.
This isn’t a knee jerk reaction to today’s performance, as we were far worse at Hudds away. But I look back at Swansea where we scored a lucky one of Muzzas thigh, they should of equalised at the death. West Ham away was great, we scored at key times and caught them at a very low point. Man U was possibly one of our best performances but same old story couldn’t score. Chelsea we compete for 45mins then concede and it’s game over.
Cmon Chris, Coaches & Squad we’ve come along way together, please don’t let it fizzle out playing the same old same old, which clearly isn’t working. Why not try something different over the next couple of matches prior to getting in to the last 14 matches of this crucial first season in the PL. Try it now please prior to any panic setting in with the last few games to go. At least you will then know if you have a potential Plan B or not.
UTA
 

Perkino

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2009
5,978
Against a Chelsea side who we wouldn't expect to beat it might be an idea. Has to be a greater chance of keeping a clean sheet with 5 defenders and possibly pinch a goal with a 2nd striker. Let's just hope we don't need to create any play or retain possession with only 3 slow central midfielders and no real width or pace
 


sir albion

New member
Jan 6, 2007
13,055
SWINDON
Against a Chelsea side who we wouldn't expect to beat it might be an idea. Has to be a greater chance of keeping a clean sheet with 5 defenders and possibly pinch a goal with a 2nd striker. Let's just hope we don't need to create any play or retain possession with only 3 slow central midfielders and no real width or pace
Think we need to get away from this defending and pinching a goal scenario as it's becoming tiresome.Time to just go for goals and go out with a bang :)
 


kevtherev

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2008
10,443
Tunbridge Wells
No chance. Hughton won't change his tactics. That's why we are going downhill fast. Goldson mom v Watford. Palace mom v Palace. Both dropped for next games. Predictable tactics. Championship strikers. I know most people on here don't want to see it, but we are going down if we don't get some real quality in quickly. I reckon we need another 14pts and I can't honestly see where there going to come from. Swansea and Huddersfield at Home are the two obvious must win games. We don't go away to win. It's all going to end badly I think. Unless a change of approach is taken very soon.
 

Giraffe

VERY part time moderator
Helpful Moderator
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Aug 8, 2005
26,421
Entirely agreed. Makes perfect sense to me. He won’t do it though.

Hughton has a plan A, 4-4-1-1, and that’s it pretty much. Considering another formation would blow his mind.
 

DarrenFreemansPerm

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Sep 28, 2010
17,328
Shoreham
The problem is that a new system takes time to coach in unless the players are familiar with it so you really need a pre season rather than a week on the training ground

Two things, firstly Hughton and his coaching staff should have been working on different formations anyway, but it’s unlikely as he picks a formula for a season and sticks with it. Secondly, Conte switched Chelsea to a 3-5-2 after his preferred formation let them down against Arsenal, Chelsea went on to win the league comfortably.
 


Dorset Seagull

Once Dolphin, Now Seagull
Two things, firstly Hughton and his coaching staff should have been working on different formations anyway, but it’s unlikely as he picks a formula for a season and sticks with it. Secondly, Conte switched Chelsea to a 3-5-2 after his preferred formation let them down against Arsenal, Chelsea went on to win the league comfortably.

Fair point but perhaps many of the players were already familiar with the system plus most are near world class so presumably could adapt quicker. Also I guess Conte and his staff knew the system inside out but I’m not sure if ours do
 


midnight_rendezvous

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
3,737
The Black Country
No, we don’t have the players to suit this system.

Next

Do we not? ??? We have four decent centre backs to choose from, with Dunk and Goldson being good play playing defenders. Sutnner and Schelotto have both played as wing backs before, three solid centre midfielders in Stephens, Kayal and Propper (I’d even suggest Gross would be more than ok in the centre of the park) leaving Murray and Baldock up top.

Not to bad I’d say. All that is left out is our natural wingers as I wouldn’t trust them to operate as wingbacks personally.
 

tigertim68

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2012
2,299
I have been saying this to my brother , it will make us stronger and our midfield won’t be so deep
 
Similar thoughts to my post a few weeks ago, and reused yesterday:

I may get slated here but I think CH is missing a trick in our formation, which in my opinion has lost us 4 points from the last 3 games. Here goes with my reasoning with how we could improve:

At the back - Goldson (who Has Maldiniesque tendencies) is a better footballer than Duffy; Duffy is hard and enjoys the ugly side of the game, getting stuck in when needed; Dunk is a mixture of both but needs to rely on someone to tidy up when needed. Equation - play all three together.

Midfield - We have a severe lack of bite in the centre which served us so well over the last 2 seasons. Propper and Stephens too alike and cancel each other out. Either play Stephens/Propper and Kayal. My opinion, Stephens and Kayal with Propper in the hole in an attacking free roaming type position (funnily enough, the one he does very well with The Netherlands). Ok, that leaves a problem with Groß but I will come back to him in a minute. Wide you can set up to either hold and defend with Schelotto/Bruno or Suttner/Bong (left and right) or attack with Izquierdo and Knocky (again left and right respectively). Opponent dependent.

Up Front - Murray/Hemed and Baldock. Playing 1 up front has severely restricted our goal scoring opportunities, because quite frankly, there is no one in the box because the lone striker is out of position with link up play. 2 up front obviously means that leaves one for link up and feeding with one in the box to receive.

The mathematicians, statisticians and tactitians amongst you will recognise this as a 3-5-2 formation which can be interchanged to either a defensive or attack minded formation dependent on home/away/opposition.

Now the elephant in the room - Groß. He runs his socks off every game giving everything. For me, he is simply outstanding but I think he is being asked too much of to either support midfield (most of the time) and support the attack. However, he is so effective in that ‘hole’. So, does he replace Propper in that position as THE attacking midfielder with Propper replacing Stephens? Either way, Groß must always start but I do not feel the same way with Propper or Stephens. However, we need ‘bite’ in that central midfield and that is Kayal. This will also help our front pair and (in my opinion) could really scare some (most) of the opposition outside of the top 6.

Anyway, that’s it. In a nutshell, something has to change to convert draws into wins. I do not understand comments of ‘we are learning’ or ‘a point will do’, that’s way too negative. We have a squad of players that can thrive instead of survive. We can definitely be brave and we do look like we belong.

I am not saying we can beat everyone or that we can easily be in the top 10. What I am saying is that we can thrive. That is good for our future.

Just a few thoughts.
 


HAILSHAM SEAGULL

Well-known member
Nov 9, 2009
10,346
The bad news is Chelsea have had 3 successive 0-0's.....so expect a goal fest at one end
 
What has been apparent, especially from ‘them up the road’, is that taking the game to the opposition gives you a better chance of competing effectively as opposed to restraining/constraining both the opposition and ourselves. This attritional approach ‘may’ keep you in a game for a while but eventually, you will break and the self fulfilling prophecy is thus proved. Ultimately, we lose.

If we lose by trying and giving it a go, then so be it. We gave it our all. If we lose by our attritional tactics, this I cannot condone because we are stating that we have lost before a ball is kicked. Unforgivable.

Fortune favours the brave. So do solid tactics (changed to meet the opposition) and a desire to win. This is competing.
 

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