Terror attacks - Fight or flight?

Bob'n'weave · Jun 6, 2017

Seeing a lot of media saluting those who stood and faced the scum in London with chairs, bottles, crates etc. It takes a special kind of person to do this, ignoring the natural instinct to flee and face potential death to help others. In fact, the only ray of hope from all I have seen this last few weeks is the bravery of those who helped the wounded in Manchester and those that stood and fought in London. I'm not asking anyone 'would you stand or run', but I would question the official line of 'run/hide/tell'. If those who stood in London had run, the body count would be much higher. Interesting article from the US questioning 'run and hide' strategy in the wake of 9/11 and mass shootings.

It’s time we stop training to be lambs for the slaughter and have a national conversation about standing up to terrorists—a conversation that, for once, isn’t linked to either arming everyone with guns or to legislatively taking away those same weapons. It’s time to arm ourselves with knowledge about the benefits of action, and with training for such methods of defense and deterrence.

After all, you don’t need to be a Navy SEAL or a SWAT team leader to be a hero. You just need to reflect on the current plan’s flaws and be willing to take a better approach, to stand up together against the evil.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/07/28/l...-up-to-a-terrorist-is-your-best-self-defense/

5mins-from-amex · Jun 6, 2017

Its hard to tell how you would react in the heat of the moment with all the adrenaline pumping around your body. I've never backed down from a fight, but being confronted with a madman with a knife hell bent on killing me might test that bravado.

Gazwag · Jun 6, 2017

I think its difficult to know until you are actually in that situation and a person actions could be different if you are on your own compared to with family

hans kraay fan club · Jun 6, 2017

I have no idea how I'd react, and hope I never find out.

Icy Gull · Jun 6, 2017

Gazwag said:
I think its difficult to know until you are actually in that situation and a person actions could be different if you are on your own compared to with family

So true, on my own I might leg it, if my family were in the firing line I'd like to think I'd stay and fight.

beorhthelm · Jun 6, 2017

Bob'n'weave said:
... If those who stood in London had run, the body count would be much higher.

how do you make that? people running away from machete wielding nutters are putting distance between themselves and machete, seems likley to be advantageous. it entirely depends on the scenario of course, if you are in a bar and the doors can be shut/barricaded that's a better approach. if outside the bar, armed with a chair and dutch courage probably going to fend off a knife attacker. however if the perpetrator is a wearing a suicide vest though you are in a sticky situation either way, down to luck whats between you and blast.

that article seems to be written by a marine, who may just have different instinct and training, and talking about flight 73 and the France train are entirely different to the streets. in probability flight is a better strategy than fight, unless you have good appraisal of the situation, know what you can do and are backed up.

Bob'n'weave · Jun 6, 2017

5mins-from-amex said:
Its hard to tell how you would react in the heat of the moment with all the adrenaline pumping around your body. I've never backed down from a fight, but being confronted with a madman with a knife hell bent on killing me might test that bravado.

Gazwag said:
I think its difficult to know until you are actually in that situation and a person actions could be different if you are on your own compared to with family

Icy Gull said:
So true, on my own I might leg it, if my family were in the firing line I'd like to think I'd stay and fight.

All totally valid points. I am in Icy Gulls corner on this one, as are a lot of other people in this country. I certainly could not hide under a table with my family and just hope they don't see us, or choose someone else nearby. The quote in my original post talks about arming ourselves with knowledge, what can be utilised as a weapon, group attack/deterrence strategies etc. Not saying this should be expected of everyone, but if people do choose to stand together in the face of terrorist scum with knives then lets give them the knowledge/skills to do so effectively.

Knocky's Nose · Jun 6, 2017

Funnily enough, my Missus asked me what I'd do if someone with a foot long Machete came running at me.

First reaction : Luzz stuff. If that fails : Rush him - hard and fast, and push him into, or over, something.

After that, probably run whilst he's down - or if he poses danger to my family, or others, stamp his little face into mush.

All hypothetical though. I'm not trained, nor am I a cage fighter - but I'm reasonably fit, pretty strong, and tall.

Buzzer · Jun 6, 2017

Knocky's Nose said:
Funnily enough, my Missus asked me what I'd do if someone with a foot long Machete came running at me.

This popped up on Twitter today. Police arresting a bloke for having loads of machetes and knives in his backpack. Imagine one of these being waved at you.

[tweet]871928092884963334[/tweet]

Bob'n'weave · Jun 6, 2017

beorhthelm said:
how do you make that? people running away from machete wielding nutters are putting distance between themselves and machete, seems likley to be advantageous. it entirely depends on the scenario of course, if you are in a bar and the doors can be shut/barricaded that's a better approach. if outside the bar, armed with a chair and dutch courage probably going to fend off a knife attacker. however if the perpetrator is a wearing a suicide vest though you are in a sticky situation either way, down to luck whats between you and blast.

that article seems to be written by a marine, who may just have different instinct and training, and talking about flight 73 and the France train are entirely different to the streets. in probability flight is a better strategy than fight, unless you have good appraisal of the situation, know what you can do and are backed up.

Those that stood and fought were doing so as the attackers were stabbing women/men. My premise is simple if an attacker is distracted by having to fend off chairs, bottles, skateboards etc etc etc, then they are not killing people. Those that ran were safe, true. But those that stayed to fight did so because not everyone got away. These peoples actions in distracting/attacking the terrorists saved lives.

martin tyler · Jun 6, 2017

Don't think anyone would know till it happened. At a guess it may also depend on the weapon being used. Someone with a gun like in some of the Paris attacks I'm not sure what you can really do. Unless your close enough to attempt to disarm then to be honest there is not a lot you can do. Some loon with a 12 inch blade would make me want to stay as far away as possible as the only real danger is if he is closer than that to you.. However if it meant protecting my wife I'd act as a shield either way best I could.

5mins-from-amex · Jun 6, 2017

Buzzer said:
This popped up on Twitter today. Police arresting a bloke for having loads of machetes and knives in his backpack. Imagine one of these being waved at you.

[tweet]871928092884963334[/tweet]

Indeed! have a look on the darker side of the internet to see the damage these things can do to a human body.

Buzzer · Jun 6, 2017

5mins-from-amex said:
Indeed! have a look on the darker side of the internet to see the damage these things can do to a human body.

No thanks! Seen it first hand at Soweto Hospital in Jo'burg.

Blackadder · Jun 6, 2017

The trouble is, you don't know what the terrorist has?

These guys had fake bombs tied to them. They had knives but for all we know they could have a bunch of mates around the corner with sub-machine guns.

The shock nature of these attacks spreads blind fear.

Like most people, I don't know how I would react. I would ensure that I was between the attacker and my family though. I think that would be a natural reaction.

The Clamp · Jun 6, 2017

Depends doesn't it. I'd like to think I'd at least try and luzz a few pint glasses if they were to hand.

Vicar! · Jun 6, 2017

I note a couple of Millwall got involved. Fair play to them.

symyjym · Jun 6, 2017

I think the best thing people can do these days is to be aware of their enviroment such as exits and possible things to grab to throw or use. It sounded like the terrorists had to deal with lots of glasses and chairs being thrown at them and slowing them down which is the most people can do. Collectively throwing shit at them probably saved some lives.

Bob'n'weave · Jun 6, 2017

symyjym said:
I think the best thing people can do these days is to be aware of their enviroment such as exits and possible things to grab to throw or use. It sounded like the terrorists had to deal with lots of glasses and chairs being thrown at them and slowing them down which is the most people can do. Collectively throwing shit at them probably saved some lives.

This.

I'm thinking if the public had this mindset we would not be such a soft target for murdering terrorist scum.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...everyday-weapons-10563016?ICID=FB_mirror_main

The Clamp · Jun 6, 2017

I sometimes work for a large music venue. Got our first pop concert there since the Manchester attack coming up soon. I am not looking forward to it. Not least because frankly I don't think the security, both building wise and personnell wise are anyway near up to scratch to prevent let alone handle any kind of incident.

I also think Wildlife this year is gonna be nerve wracking.

Megazone · Jun 6, 2017

I'm sure everyone here including myself would take them down using pure bravery and guts.

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