Trump

Westdene Seagull · May 30, 2020

Mo Gosfield said:
Why does civil unrest over issues like this always result in looting? What the hell has stealing from shops ( ruining the livelihoods of innocent people ) got to do with street protests? It just seems that it is the perfect cover for those predisposed to break the law to help themselves. In 2011, protests over the shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham, ended up with rioting and looting on a national basis. The vast majority got away with it. When law and order breaks down, you have to take strong measures. In many cases in 2011, police in the UK stood back and did nothing, whilst businesses were being burned to the ground and millions stolen. Simply unacceptable. Outside of using live ammunition, any measure should be employed to ensure safety on our streets. I don't care, as long as the scum who take advantage of these situations are rounded up and punished. Its us, the taxpayer, who bears the cost of this. In 2011, in London alone, it was estimated that 30,000 trading hours were lost at a cost of £100m.

I wouldn't usually but I'm going to defend the Met Police on the Mark Duggan riots. It's a valid tactic to let a riot burn itself out - it allows officers to stay safe and more importantly it prevents police action invoking an escalation. Bit like a forest fire - ring it, fight it from the edges but let it burn itself out. Then after deal with the cause. In those riots emergency courts were set up and people were arrested and convicted within hours. I read a report of a girl who had accepted a pair of looted trainers - arrested, convicted and sentenced to six months. We now have the tech to get people after the event. Obviously te USA police are rather different beasts !

Stat Brother · May 30, 2020

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Bakero · May 30, 2020

Great speech by Killer Mike, who some of you may know from Run the Jewels or perhaps his Netflix docs.

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vegster · May 30, 2020

Mo Gosfield said:
Why does civil unrest over issues like this always result in looting? What the hell has stealing from shops ( ruining the livelihoods of innocent people ) got to do with street protests? It just seems that it is the perfect cover for those predisposed to break the law to help themselves. In 2011, protests over the shooting of Mark Duggan in Tottenham, ended up with rioting and looting on a national basis. The vast majority got away with it. When law and order breaks down, you have to take strong measures. In many cases in 2011, police in the UK stood back and did nothing, whilst businesses were being burned to the ground and millions stolen. Simply unacceptable. Outside of using live ammunition, any measure should be employed to ensure safety on our streets. I don't care, as long as the scum who take advantage of these situations are rounded up and punished. Its us, the taxpayer, who bears the cost of this. In 2011, in London alone, it was estimated that 30,000 trading hours were lost at a cost of £100m.

There are always thieves and criminals about and they thrive on opportunism more than anything else. Mrs V's sister live in a flat along Eastern Road, the end by the Marina and recently she keeps having her pot plants stolen from the steps to her front door, its petty and spiteful and the plants and pots have little real value but still it happens. So imagine a shopping centre where a protest has slowly got out of hand and a shop window has been broken.... to most people it would seem that things are getting out of hand but a few people will see that as an opportunity, break lots of windows then people who would not dream of stealing anything suddenly see an opportunity too as order breaks down.....

Two months ago there were fist fights in supermarkets over bog roll remember ?

vegster · May 30, 2020

Stat Brother said:
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OHHHHH, sweet !

Dr Bandler · May 30, 2020

Westdene Seagull said:
I wouldn't usually but I'm going to defend the Met Police on the Mark Duggan riots. It's a valid tactic to let a riot burn itself out - it allows officers to stay safe and more importantly it prevents police action invoking an escalation. Bit like a forest fire - ring it, fight it from the edges but let it burn itself out. Then after deal with the cause. In those riots emergency courts were set up and people were arrested and convicted within hours. I read a report of a girl who had accepted a pair of looted trainers - arrested, convicted and sentenced to six months. We now have the tech to get people after the event. Obviously te USA police are rather different beasts !

I am not sure that was the case. Wasn't it because the police stood off initially that the riots escalated and spread around the country? Eventually, strong control had to be taken on the streets and in the courts (as you say) with David Cameron coming back from holiday and emergency meetings of COBRA. It is easy to forget that it was a scary time for many. I think the police were initially taken by surprise but it probably should have been nipped in the bud sooner, and it would have been shorter lived.

Wozza · May 30, 2020

Bakero said:
Great speech by Killer Mike, who some of you may know from Run the Jewels or perhaps his Netflix docs.

[tweet]1266587297706893312[/tweet]

Amazing, heartfelt speech. (But unfortunate choice of shirt)

BadFish · May 30, 2020

Buffalo Seagull said:
There certainly wasn’t much that I agreed with Tyrone on. But when it comes to Geelong, [MENTION=1313]BadFish[/MENTION] is much more of a looney lefty liberal snowflake than I am.

Aw, you say the sweetest things :kiss:

I think I am happy to be the polar opposite of Tyrone........ and Trump.

Bakero · May 30, 2020

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:moo:

vegster · May 30, 2020

Bakero said:
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It's always easy to feel safe when unarmed protestors are saying nasty things but you are surrounded by probably hundreds of heavily armed agents.

Stat Brother · May 30, 2020

Jed Bartlet has rather let himself go.

Higham Seagull Army · May 30, 2020

Antifa are the latest target, in the Trump blame lottery, obviously backed by the chinese of course.
Well done trump , just trebled there numbers overnight, great work.

Lyndhurst 14 · May 30, 2020

A few weeks ago I was walking home at about midnight. I saw a crowd of people watching the NYPD dealing with a guy who was either drunk or high. Nothing unusual about that, must happen multiple times across the 5 boroughs at the weekend. Looking more closely I saw it was a black guy and at least 5 of the onlookers were filming it on their phones. The NYPD were doing everything by the book, trying to get him to calm down and then get him into the ambulance which had just turned up. He was abusive and striking out in all directions so not an easy job. It did make me think would this have been different if the crowd with the cameras had not been there? Personally I don't think it would. The NYPD came in for worldwide attention after Eric Garner, a black guy selling cigarettes without tax stamps, was killed by the NYPD when they put him in a choke hold. Since I've lived here I think the NYPD, like most police forces, does its best to do a good job. Yes, there is racism in police forces, same as any other walk of life, and they do get it wrong sometimes. But they are often working in extreme circumstances doing a job which most of us would never even consider doing.

The big problem in Minneapolis is getting justice for the family, and eventually getting some trust back in the police force - if that can ever happen. For those of us living in the States it is incredibly upsetting seeing what is happening in 2020. The country has to move forward together for all our sakes

BN41Albion · May 30, 2020

Lyndhurst 14 said:
A few weeks ago I was walking home at about midnight. I saw a crowd of people watching the NYPD dealing with a guy who was either drunk or high. Nothing unusual about that, must happen multiple times across the 5 boroughs at the weekend. Looking more closely I saw it was a black guy and at least 5 of the onlookers were filming it on their phones. The NYPD were doing everything by the book, trying to get him to calm down and then get him into the ambulance which had just turned up. He was abusive and striking out in all directions so not an easy job. It did make me think would this have been different if the crowd with the cameras had not been there? Personally I don't think it would. The NYPD came in for worldwide attention after Eric Garner, a black guy selling cigarettes without tax stamps, was killed by the NYPD when they put him in a choke hold. Since I've lived here I think the NYPD, like most police forces, does its best to do a good job. Yes, there is racism in police forces, same as any other walk of life, and they do get it wrong sometimes. But they are often working in extreme circumstances doing a job which most of us would never even consider doing.

The big problem in Minneapolis is getting justice for the family, and eventually getting some trust back in the police force - if that can ever happen. For those of us living in the States it is incredibly upsetting seeing what is happening in 2020. The country has to move forward together for all our sakes

Really interesting and rational insight. It seems from the media that the states is tearing itself apart in all directions at the moment,and that things are really only going in one direction as the election looms closer and divisions deepen. Is this really the case? What's the general mood; is it as the media portrays it?

Lyndhurst 14 · May 30, 2020

BN41Albion said:
Really interesting and rational insight. It seems from the media that the states is tearing itself apart in all directions at the moment,and that things are really only going in one direction as the election looms closer and divisions deepen. Is this really the case? What's the general mood; is it as the media portrays it?

There's no doubt that all the riots that have broken out make great footage for the TV but I don't think the country is tearing itself apart, it almost feels like it is too tired of bad news - as well as the riots they have hit the 100,000 deaths from Covid - and they are just hurting. I personally think Trump has polarized the country. I know friends who have fallen out bigtime with each other after years of friendship because one is a Trump supporter. They were fine when the other friend was a Republican but being a Trump supporter crossed the line. As the National Guard and possibly military are deployed things could escalate, I thing most Americans are hoping both sides pull back and have a peaceful protest. I have always found most Americans to be decent, reasonable people and seeing this level of extremism and hatred is shocking.

BN41Albion · May 30, 2020

Lyndhurst 14 said:
There's no doubt that all the riots that have broken out make great footage for the TV but I don't think the country is tearing itself apart, it almost feels like it is too tired of bad news - as well as the riots they have hit the 100,000 deaths from Covid - and they are just hurting. I personally think Trump has polarized the country. I know friends who have fallen out bigtime with each other after years of friendship because one is a Trump supporter. They were fine when the other friend was a Republican but being a Trump supporter crossed the line. As the National Guard and possibly military are deployed things could escalate, I thing most Americans are hoping both sides pull back and have a peaceful protest. I have always found most Americans to be decent, reasonable people and seeing this level of extremism and hatred is shocking.

To be honest it's easy to look at America and the divisions Trump has caused and actively promotes on the news and think wtf is going on over there, but the reality is so many countries have become politically polarized around the world at the moment: across Europe and South America especially as well as the States. I suppose with America there's the added racial tensions you don't see over here or elsewhere to anywhere near the same extent, as well as good old guns. I hope too that the protests become peaceful again. I imagine it must be tough to watch living out there on top of everything going on with Covid.

Juan Albion · May 31, 2020

He won't be happy tonight when he looks up from his midnight cheeseburger and sees that protesters have set fire to a structure opposite the White House.

bhafc99 · May 31, 2020

Juan Albion said:
He won't be happy tonight when he looks up from his midnight cheeseburger and sees that protesters have set fire to a structure opposite the White House.

He only ever looks up to gaze dumbly at Fox News on the tv, then back down to his grease-smeared thumbs slapping moronically onto the keys of his Twitter feed, so no risk of that happening I'm afraid.

Stat Brother · May 31, 2020

My one rule for enjoying Twitter is:-

'Don't read below the line'.

But every once in a while I'll see something requiring further investigation, here's a case in point

[tweet]1266921821653385225[/tweet]

After the MAGA hat wearer has stirred just some yogurt knitters (like myself) the main cause for debate seems to be whether your porch is private or public property.

Not the tank.
Not the 100 strong National Guard.
Not the paramilitary uniforms
Not the yee-ha bravado
Not the silence of the street.
Not the shooting.

No they want to talk about porches.

Stat Brother · May 31, 2020

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