Trump

peterward · Oct 30, 2020

dingodan said:
He never said they would not air the materials which he mentioned as being "directly relevant to the presidential campaign". He said they are still going through them.

He spoke seperately of other information which they are recieving from people about Hunter's personal life. He is saying they aren't going to air that stuff, it's not relevant to Joe Biden, and that stuff they will not report on, because it's not appropriate.

Don't conflate those two things. Whether the documents which went missing and are now found were really as significant as they said they were is yet to be demonstrated, I fully accept that. But it couldn't be clearer if you listen to the piece. That stuff they now have back and are still going through. Other stuff about Hunter's personal life has been recieved, and that stuff they don't feel is relevant and don't feel it would be fair to cover.

Stop misrepresenting everything.

Its you that's in denial [MENTION=18559]dingodan[/MENTION], you've dug yourself a hole by clinging to the thought there could be some truth in a contrived narrative that's sole intent is a political hit job and to spread through whatever mediums possible to damage Biden/help Trump.

Nothing will come of this story, NOTHING - How much would you like to stump up to the REMF as a bet - name it, and i'm all in.

whether Trump wins or Biden all this fake rubbish disappears next Tuesday - you still believe Hunter Biden, travelled 3000 miles to hand over a laptop to a blind guy, with incriminating evidence of corruption on it, then forgot about, only for blind guy to clone it and hand it to Giuliani?

Seriously?

Its the most pathetic, bungled attempted political hitjob in history, a comedy of errors.

read what a judge quoted in a ruling against Carlson just one month ago after similar muck raking bullshit fake news report on his show resulted in a defamation case against him..

.............. Do Fox News viewers think Tucker Carlson tells them the truth? Are they, in fact, reasonable? The federal judge, Mary Kay Vyskocil, who herself was appointed to the federal bench by Trump nine months ago, dismissed the case, citing Carlson’s First Amendment protections. That is, Vyskocil bought the argument Fox News was pushing that Carlson is, first and foremost, not a provider of “the news” as we know it, or “facts” as we commonly understand them, and his audience knows this. They’re apparently in on the gag. Fox News doesn’t label Carlson’s speech parody because that’s embarrassing for a company with the word news in its name to admit; it’s not factual journalism because that implies some responsibility for the credibility of the information that you spew. Instead, Fox News lawyers claim, Carlson is not “stating actual facts” but simply engaging in “non-literal commentary.” I couldn’t have described Carlson or Fox News better myself.

From Judge Vyskocil’s ruling:

"the context of “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” the Court finds that Mr. Carlson’s invocation of “extortion” against Ms. McDougal is nonactionable hyperbole, intended to frame the debate in the guest commentator segment that followed Mr. Carlson’s soliloquy. As Defendant notes, Mr. Carlson himself aims to “challenge political correctness and media bias.” This “general tenor” of the show should then inform a viewer that he is not “stating actual facts” about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in “exaggeration” and “non-literal commentary.” … Given Mr. Carlson’s reputation, any reasonable viewer ‘arrive ~~with an appropriate amount of skepticism’ …"~~

In other words, “any reasonable viewer” doesn’t actually believe what Tucker Carlson is saying to be true. It is therefore unreasonable to take what Tucker Carlson says as truth.

Give it up Dingodan you're making yourself look stupid trying to defend the indefensible - Dont worry I'll apologise profusely when these killer/verified documents that haven't yet appeared do suddenly (you'd have to think they've got 100's working through them 24/7 wouldnt you with whats at stake) - in the mean time you carry on deluding yourself as the square root of F*** all actually happens.

Mellotron · Oct 30, 2020

peterward said:
Give it up Dingodan you're making yourself look stupid trying to defend the indefensible - Dont worry I'll apologise profusely when these killer/verified documents that haven't yet appeared do suddenly (you'd have to think they've got 100's working through them 24/7 wouldnt you with whats at stake) - in the mean time you carry on deluding yourself as the square root of F*** all actually happens.

I like how they're really "taking their time" whilst millions of people are voting early, with the election vote ENDING just half a week away - definitely Trump & supporters' style, to always wait for the full facts and context of a situation before spreading any misinformation or rumours.

The humungous u-turn from Carlson definitely had absolutely nothing to do with the debunking of this clearly obvious bollocks.

As you say, these aren't even close to journalists. Entertainers with no responsibility towards facts, as confirmed in a court of law.

Thanks for taking a turn by the way - I can take over later if needed, I know it's exhausting.

dingodan · Oct 30, 2020

peterward said:
Its you that's in denial [MENTION=18559]dingodan[/MENTION], you've dug yourself a hole by clinging to the thought there could be some truth in a contrived narrative that's sole intent is a political hit job and to spread through whatever mediums possible to damage Biden/help Trump.

Nothing will come of this story, NOTHING - How much would you like to stump up to the REMF as a bet - name it, and i'm all in.

whether Trump wins or Biden all this fake rubbish disappears next Tuesday - you still believe Hunter Biden, travelled 3000 miles to hand over a laptop to a blind guy, with incriminating evidence of corruption on it, then forgot about, only for blind guy to clone it and hand it to Giuliani?

Seriously?

Its the most pathetic, bungled attempted political hitjob in history, a comedy of errors.

read what a judge quoted in a ruling against Carlson just one month ago after similar muck raking bullshit fake news report on his show resulted in a defamation case against him..

.............. Do Fox News viewers think Tucker Carlson tells them the truth? Are they, in fact, reasonable? The federal judge, Mary Kay Vyskocil, who herself was appointed to the federal bench by Trump nine months ago, dismissed the case, citing Carlson’s First Amendment protections. That is, Vyskocil bought the argument Fox News was pushing that Carlson is, first and foremost, not a provider of “the news” as we know it, or “facts” as we commonly understand them, and his audience knows this. They’re apparently in on the gag. Fox News doesn’t label Carlson’s speech parody because that’s embarrassing for a company with the word news in its name to admit; it’s not factual journalism because that implies some responsibility for the credibility of the information that you spew. Instead, Fox News lawyers claim, Carlson is not “stating actual facts” but simply engaging in “non-literal commentary.” I couldn’t have described Carlson or Fox News better myself.

From Judge Vyskocil’s ruling:

"the context of “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” the Court finds that Mr. Carlson’s invocation of “extortion” against Ms. McDougal is nonactionable hyperbole, intended to frame the debate in the guest commentator segment that followed Mr. Carlson’s soliloquy. As Defendant notes, Mr. Carlson himself aims to “challenge political correctness and media bias.” This “general tenor” of the show should then inform a viewer that he is not “stating actual facts” about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in “exaggeration” and “non-literal commentary.” … Given Mr. Carlson’s reputation, any reasonable viewer ‘arrive ~~with an appropriate amount of skepticism’ …"~~

In other words, “any reasonable viewer” doesn’t actually believe what Tucker Carlson is saying to be true. It is therefore unreasonable to take what Tucker Carlson says as truth. Good note, judge.

Give it up Dingodan you're making yourself look stupid trying to defend the indefensible - Dont worry I'll apologise profusely when these killer/verified documents that haven't yet appeared do suddenly (you'd have to think they've got 100's working through them wouldnt you) - in the mean time you carry on deluding yourself as the square root of F*** all actually happens.

First of all, I have never quoted Tucker Carlson on anything. You argued that he said he won't now cover the documents which went missing. He didn't say that I corrected you.

As for the court case, the argument that Tucker Carlson's opinions shouldn't be taken as facts and that reasonable viewers should realize this was actually the defences argument, and it's an argument used by media outlets all the time. Rachel Maddow won a similar case with a similar defence.

But agian, I've never quoted Tucker, or Fox News, I've only corrected your misrepresenation of what he said in that piece. I don't consider Tucker Carlson as a reason why these documents are credible. A witness has come forward, was interviewed by the FBI, who have an ongoing investigation which dates back to 2019. The Biden camp have not disputed the authenticity of the documentation. While I am personally a bit skeptical about whether the laptop originated from the repair shop, there are receipts to that effect with HB's signature on them, and Biden's lawyer even asked for the laptop to be returned.

You are right about one thing, this might end up going nowhere, but that wouldn't neccessarily be because there is nothing to it. It depends whether the FBI bring charges. If they have an investigation going on for a year, that's a long time to determine that there is nothing there. But if JB becomes President, which he likely will, I'm sure that will complicate the FBI's position.

KeithDublin · Oct 30, 2020

Alright, none of this sitting on the fence rubbish, I'm going to take a page out of Spence's book (I suddenly feel very dirty): Texas to go blue, landslide Biden win, BLUE WAVE IS COMING

(this is based on Texas already having a higher turnout than 2016)

Mellotron · Oct 30, 2020

KeithDublin said:
Alright, none of this sitting on the fence rubbish, I'm going to take a page out of Spence's book (I suddenly feel very dirty): Texas to go blue, landslide Biden win, BLUE WAVE IS COMING

(this is based on Texas already having a higher turnout than 2016)

I can't bring myself to believe Texas could turn blue.

If it did, it's hard to explain how catastrophic that could be for the GOP. Like, potentially-fatal-catastrophic.

KeithDublin · Oct 30, 2020

Mellotron said:
I can't bring myself to believe Texas could turn blue.

If it did, it's hard to explain how catastrophic that could be for the GOP. Like, potentially-fatal-catastrophic.

O' Rourke pushed Cruz very close with only 50% turnout, it looks like there might be a 70% this election. And you know what, I just fancied a spot of chicken counting

Mellotron · Oct 30, 2020

KeithDublin said:
O' Rourke pushed Cruz very close with only 50% turnout, it looks like there might be a 70% this election. And you know what, I just fancied a spot of chicken counting

If Democrats held Texas, Florida, New York and California, watch Republicans SUDDENLY be massively in favour of abolishing the Electoral College.

Gwylan · Oct 30, 2020

highflyer said:
And if you think that any journalist worth their salt doesn't consider the integrity and potential motive of a source for any potentially sensitive story, let alone one of this nature and timing, then you know nothing about how (real) journalism works.

Yes, that's why Dingodan struggles with all these allegations and the supposed media silence. But it's particularly true in America where everything is double fact-checked.

Badger Boy · Oct 30, 2020

It would be extraordinary to see Biden carry Texas. It would be a massive sea change there, but it would be a massive win for the Democrats. Beto O'Rourke did such amazing things during his campaign and he's kept on spreading the message to counties in Texas the Democrats didn't even try and engage previously. The country is crying out for a new generation of leadership and if the Democrats can be so organised that they can get an O'Rourke type character in every state, they'll be on fire.

I hope they replace both Pelosi and Schumer as their Leaders in the House and Senate (hopefully with a majority in both, but let's not count every chicken in the coop!) with younger people. And not pack their senior positions with career politicians. It's very clear (to me, at least!) that the voters want people will life experience in the key roles. There's a reason people like Buttigieg, Warren and Harris polled strongly in the primaries. They have all had careers outside of politics rather than being stuck on the inside of Washington for decades. Which is ironic, given they ended up nominating Biden!

dingodan · Oct 30, 2020

Gwylan said:
Yes, that's why Dingodan struggles with all these allegations and the supposed media silence. But it's particularly true in America where everything is double fact-checked.

I don't struggle with anything.

The Biden laptop story has been fact checked. A witness has been found and come forward, and been interviewed by the FBI, and turned over his devices to them. The FBI have had an investigation running on these matters since 2019. The original NYP email has been independently verified. The witness has verified other emails of which he was the recipient. Recorded phone conversations and voice messages have been released.

Don't make out that none of this rises to the level of credible evidence, it far surpasses that bar, and there is no question about it. It's not being covered for the same reason you are all doing the same "Three wise monkeys" routine. Because f*ck Trump, we want Biden to get over the line.

I don't begrudge you that view, but at least be honest. & I do begrudge the media that view, because they have a responsibility which they are failing to live up to in a criminal fashion.

drew · Oct 30, 2020

dingodan said:
No they are Trump people. I would also be quite ready to believe that the laptop was actually cloned overseas by an intelligence service, probably an amateur one given that it's been offered around to the highest bidder, but that isn't really the point. The question is what is the veracity of the evidence. If shitty people get hold of reliable evidence, it's still reliable evidence, even if you don't like the person who obtained it.

And if reliable people get hold of shitty evidence, it's still shitty evidence. Now I might be being generous to describe Fox News as reliable but we live in strange times.

dingodan · Oct 30, 2020

drew said:
And if reliable people get hold of shitty evidence, it's still shitty evidence. Now I might be being generous to describe Fox News as reliable but we live in strange times.

That's true.

This evidence isn't shitty though is it. It's reliable, and damning.

A new email exchange has been identified from the laptop, where HB asks, "what do we need to do moving forward", and is told that if he can get a formal meet with his dad for "these guys", "we get more bonds to move".

"We get 10% in fees." The value of each bond? "over $2.1 billion."

This was 2011 btw. Biden was VP.

pb21 · Oct 30, 2020

dingodan said:
That's true.

This evidence isn't shitty though is it. It's reliable, and damning.

A new email exchange has been identified from the laptop, where HB asks, "what do we need to do moving forward", and is told that if he can get a formal meet with his dad for "these guys", "we get more bonds to move".

"We get 10% in fees." The value of each bond? "over $2.1 billion."

This was 2011 btw. Biden was VP.

Did a formal meeting with the Joe Biden happen?

dingodan · Oct 30, 2020

pb21 said:
Did a formal meeting with the Joe Biden happen?

Fair question, no idea at this point. I guess that is something proper journalists will be trying to find out now.

Clearly using the VP was considered a valid play to make some bank though.

highflyer · Oct 30, 2020

dingodan said:
. I guess that is something proper journalists will be trying to find out now.

And the penny finally drops,

Gwylan · Oct 30, 2020

dingodan said:
I don't struggle with anything.

The Biden laptop story has been fact checked. A witness has been found and come forward, and been interviewed by the FBI, and turned over his devices to them. The FBI have had an investigation running on these matters since 2019. The original NYP email has been independently verified. The witness has verified other emails of which he was the recipient. Recorded phone conversations and voice messages have been released.

Where is the link to any story where the FBI say Joe Biden is under investigation? Where is the evidence that Joe Biden has received money from the Chinese government - given that he has released his tax returns. You've posted loads of links over the past week why have you not posted any of this?

Yesterday, you put up a link about Glenn Greenwald's resignation from Intercept, citing this as proof that the media was complicit in censoring stories about Joe Biden's corruption. Greenwald published this story himself and what do we see.

"Thus far, no proof has been offered by Bubolinski that Biden ever consummated his participation in any of those discussed deals. The Wall Street Journal says that it found no corporate records reflecting that a deal was finalized and that "text messages and emails related to the venture that were provided to the Journal by Mr. Bobulinski, mainly from the spring and summer of 2017, don’t show either Hunter Biden or James Biden discussing a role for Joe Biden in the venture."

So, someone you yourself described as a top investigative reporter can find no proof that Joe Biden is involved. And yet you claim that you have such proof. The mind boggles

pb21 · Oct 30, 2020

dingodan said:
Fair question, no idea at this point. I guess that is something proper journalists will be trying to find out now.

Clearly using the VP was considered a valid play to make some bank though.

I would think so, a corrupt VP likely to be President would be some story!

I agree, it seems reasonable to assume (presumably this is all 100% true and accurate, and has been 'owned up too', or at the very least not denied? I haven't been following this TBH) that Biden's son is of dubious character. What is it with wayward children of dubious character: I'm sure Brenda thinks the same!

dingodan · Oct 30, 2020

Gwylan said:
Where is the link to any story where the FBI say Joe Biden is under investigation? Where is the evidence that Joe Biden has received money from the Chinese government - given that he has released his tax returns. You've posted loads of links over the past week why have you not posted any of this?

Yesterday, you put up a link about Glenn Greenwald's resignation from Intercept, citing this as proof that the media was complicit in censoring stories about Joe Biden's corruption. Greenwald published this story himself and what do we see.

"Thus far, no proof has been offered by Bubolinski that Biden ever consummated his participation in any of those discussed deals. The Wall Street Journal says that it found no corporate records reflecting that a deal was finalized and that "text messages and emails related to the venture that were provided to the Journal by Mr. Bobulinski, mainly from the spring and summer of 2017, don’t show either Hunter Biden or James Biden discussing a role for Joe Biden in the venture."

So, someone you yourself described as a top investigative reporter can find no proof that Joe Biden is involved. And yet you claim that you have such proof. The mind boggles

Try not to forget to add the following paragraph for context though won't you:

"But nobody claimed that any such deals had been consummated -- so the conclusion that one had not been does not negate the story. Moreover, some texts and emails whose authenticity has not been disputed state that Hunter was adamant that any discussions about the involvement of the Vice President be held only verbally and never put in writing."

As for the FBI investigation, I did actually post the tweet from the investigative journalist who personally got confirmation from the Justice Department and broke the story. Also reported elsewhere.
https://abc3340.com/news/nation-wor...huge-risk-for-the-sake-of-the-american-people

dingodan · Oct 30, 2020

pb21 said:
I would think so, a corrupt VP likely to be President would be some story!

I agree, it seems reasonable to assume (presumably this is all 100% true and accurate, and has been 'owned up too', or at the very least not denied? I haven't been following this TBH) that Biden's son is of dubious character. What is it with wayward children of dubious character: I'm sure Brenda thinks the same!

I think in reality everyone with any clout in Washington is up to similar kinds of stuff (well not absolutely everyone, but most of them). This does seem to be a very blatant and shameless example of it though.

dingodan · Oct 30, 2020

Looks like the media censorship hasn't gone according to plan.

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