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Consumer rights and car buying help please



spongy

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2011
2,759
Burgess Hill
As some of you may have read about recent troubles I've been going through recently but I need some advice on one of the issues.

On April 7th I bought a car from a trader. It is an 07 plate Mondeo 2.0 TDCI. The last of the make before the face-lift model. It was perfect exterior wise. FSH from ford. With 49k genuine miles on it.

The receipt had sold as seen on it.

All seemed well to me when purchasing it, I did my usual checks, hpi, phoned the previous garages on the service history and all seemed well so I went ahead and paid £2k for it.

A week after buying I thought it sounded rough and put it down to being a diesel car and that's what they sound like but wasn't sure.

I decided to get a local mechanic to look at it as I was concerned and it turns out the aux belt and tensioner were buggered and needed replacing. Upon work commencing I was informed that the crankshaft pulley was also knackered. A common problem with this engine so was prepared to take the hit. I had the work done at a cost of £345. 2 weeks later and the car still isn't idling right and rocks the car, after having it looked again I've now been told that the Dmf flywheel is knackered and the clutch is being taken with it.

Yesterday I had a complete mental breakdown with all that's going on and broke down at work in tears. I regained a little decorum and late yesterday I phoned the trader I bought the car off. He said he would pay for the repairs with proof of quote.

I spent today on the phone to several local garages and the quotes for the work came back between £775 and £1035. I have,since been in contact with the trader and he has disputed my quotes saying he can get the work done for £350. Which I think is utter crap as the parts alone cost that much. I have been able to get email evidence of this conversation.

After I submitted the official quotes to him via,email he has offered us a full refund on the car or £200 compensation toward the repair. I have politely replied telling him to piss off and want a full refund on the car. I have also demanded I want a full refund on the work I have had done since. (I have all receipts and invoices for parts and labour).

We are still within 30 days of purchase (just) so I'm within my rights to get a full refund of the vehicle. The problem is that I travelled and bought the car in Enfield north London which makes getting back there with the car a complete nightmare as someone will have to follow me there to bring me back.

We (Mrs spongy and little'un) were supposed to be driving to Devon on Monday for our holiday in this car so I'm properly up a,Creek without a paddle in sight.

Am I within my rights to claim for the extra cost of repairs? This has only happened today, tomorrow I'm supposed to be working but will not go in if I can return the car. Will he have the cash to do a cash refund at short notice?

In all the fuss yesterday the Mrs phoned the citizen advice, they have already opened a case against him for the "sold as seen" illegality he trades under and advised us to write a letter which we have duly done and send it recorded delivery to get proof as long as,he signs for it. (At a cost of £12 the robbing ******* royal mail)

Can I assume our email conversations can be accepted as proof too?

We now have to cancel insurance policies and tax on it at extra cost can I claim these against him as well?

Ive now got the massive headache of trying to get on holiday,with another car or refund before Monday morning.

Any advice will be gratefully received. If anyone knows any acts or general sale rules that I can,quote to him that he's in breach of to help me out I would be most appreciative.
 


Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
19,779
Playing snooker
Sorry to hear this Spongy - it never rains, eh?

I have to say, 49k miles for a 10 year old car sounds low - especially a Mondeo. Are you certain the mileage is legit?
 


GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast
A week after buying I thought it sounded rough and put it down to being a diesel car and that's what they sound like but wasn't sure.

I decided to get a local mechanic to look at it as I was concerned and it turns out the aux belt and tensioner were buggered and needed replacing. Upon work commencing I was informed that the crankshaft pulley was also knackered. A common problem with this engine so was prepared to take the hit. I had the work done at a cost of £345. 2 weeks later and the car still isn't idling right and rocks the car, after having it looked again I've now been told that the Dmf flywheel is knackered and the clutch is being taken with it.
.

How bad rocking? how rough is idle? Does it get better if you depress the clutch? The Pulley (Damper) is fitted to DMF flywheels to take out vibration..... why was the belts fitted before (were the symptoms the same)
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,264
no idea on the rights, but get yourself a hire car booked so you can enjoy your holiday.
 


spongy

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2011
2,759
Burgess Hill
Sorry to hear this Spongy - it never rains, eh?

I have to say, 49k miles for a 10 year old car sounds low - especially a Mondeo. Are you certain the mileage is legit?

Yep, I checked the SH mileage with the Ford dealer when doing checks. And the approx mileage corresponds with the mileages on the previous mot certs.

How bad rocking? how rough is idle? Does it get better if you depress the clutch? The Pulley (Damper) is fitted to DMF flywheels to take out vibration..... why was the belts fitted before (were the symptoms the same)

The vibration eases when clutch is depressed. It's hard to describe but it sounds as rough as ****. The previous noises were bad and eased when when clutch was pressed, the aux belt had quite a bit of slack and flapped when running, sounded worse when aircon was on which runs from the same belt. Noise went when changed and sounded better but this last week the rock has got progressively worse on idle and sounds even worse. There is now clunking when engaging gears. It sounds like the Dmf is breaking apart and slipping.
 




GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast
The vibration eases when clutch is depressed. It's hard to describe but it sounds as rough as ****. The previous noises were bad and eased when when clutch was pressed, the aux belt had quite a bit of slack and flapped when running, sounded worse when aircon was on which runs from the same belt. Noise went when changed and sounded better but this last week the rock has got progressively worse on idle and sounds even worse. There is now clunking when engaging gears. It sounds like the Dmf is breaking apart and slipping.

It's difficult to guess and diagnose without the vehicle,imaginations can run wild when stressed and often faults can present symptoms that are similar to others..
A worn engine mount coupled with a clutch slave cylinder fault could present the same scenario-possible but unlikely..
It does not sound good..

I would be inclined to take it to a garage tomorrow (another one) and get a 2nd opinion..(if you can obviously).

Was this a replacement car for your other one recently?

Good luck with the Holiday (hope you get there/find a way) i have been through replacing cars straight after another.

Keep in the back of your mind why the dealer might qoute so little? Has it a DMF?
check with ford-my mazda should have a timing belt but is chain driven (for its year).

Dealer might know what the fault is and was prepared to gamble when selling or he will take advantage of cheap parts and his mechanics daily pay/labour ratios..

The Sun will rise again for you for that i assure you- try to enjoy the rain (sorry can't really put the words across in the right way)..

NOTHING lasts forever..
 


spongy

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2011
2,759
Burgess Hill
Was this a replacement car for your other one recently?

Good luck with the Holiday (hope you get there/find a way) i have been through replacing cars straight after another

Keep in the back of your mind why the dealer might qoute so little? Has it a DMF? ..

Yes it is the replacement. I currently have 3 cars outside. Mine and two of hers.

I put a new egr valve on the old one yesterday afternoon and the old one is now fixed. At a cost of £50. But she has lost confidence in it and says she's scared of it breaking down again when she's got our little'un in the back seat. Which I can understand.

She originally wanted to go to Kia at Pyecombe and spend £11k on a brand new car. I didn't hear the end of it, even had her parents banging on about it at me and putting,me under so much pressure.

I held my nerve with them and said I wouldn't do that but I will do something for her. So I stretched myself and got what seemed like a good deal. But it hasn't been and now I'm even more out of pocket.

I'm not pissing about any more. The dealer has offered a full refund which I am going to take. I just want him to pay for the work that I've already carried out. Which he is refusing to do.

The car is going back tomorrow, her dad is gonna follow her up in their car when she returns it as unfortunately I am off to Villa tomorrow. I've been looking forward to this game since the start of the season so I am loathed to miss it.

Her dad will do the right thing with her so at least I'm happy on,that count.

Going to have to use the refunded money from the car, insurance and tax to pay off the cards and see where we stand. Everything has been moved about and balance transferred so everything is at 0% until early next year. Just need to get everything paid off and find her another car sharpish.

The last thing she mentioned last night going to bed was "can we go to kia and buy a new car?"

So I'm right back where I ****ing started. Things are tight anyway and she wants,to go and spend 230 a month to borrow a car for 3 years. I know all servicing and mot's are covered in the deal and she should in theory have a new reliable car to drive but it's expensive. And never ending financial outlay.

Cars and women.
 


DarrenFreemansPerm

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Sep 28, 2010
17,328
Shoreham
Sorry to hear you've had such a rough time of it. May I ask, regarding the Kia, which model your wife is after and what will the main use of the vehicle be i.e school runs, commuting etc?
 




Rugrat

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2011
10,212
Seaford
Yes it is the replacement. I currently have 3 cars outside. Mine and two of hers.

I put a new egr valve on the old one yesterday afternoon and the old one is now fixed. At a cost of £50. But she has lost confidence in it and says she's scared of it breaking down again when she's got our little'un in the back seat. Which I can understand.

She originally wanted to go to Kia at Pyecombe and spend £11k on a brand new car. I didn't hear the end of it, even had her parents banging on about it at me and putting,me under so much pressure.

I held my nerve with them and said I wouldn't do that but I will do something for her. So I stretched myself and got what seemed like a good deal. But it hasn't been and now I'm even more out of pocket.

I'm not pissing about any more. The dealer has offered a full refund which I am going to take. I just want him to pay for the work that I've already carried out. Which he is refusing to do.

The car is going back tomorrow, her dad is gonna follow her up in their car when she returns it as unfortunately I am off to Villa tomorrow. I've been looking forward to this game since the start of the season so I am loathed to miss it.

Her dad will do the right thing with her so at least I'm happy on,that count.

Going to have to use the refunded money from the car, insurance and tax to pay off the cards and see where we stand. Everything has been moved about and balance transferred so everything is at 0% until early next year. Just need to get everything paid off and find her another car sharpish.

The last thing she mentioned last night going to bed was "can we go to kia and buy a new car?"

So I'm right back where I ****ing started. Things are tight anyway and she wants,to go and spend 230 a month to borrow a car for 3 years. I know all servicing and mot's are covered in the deal and she should in theory have a new reliable car to drive but it's expensive. And never ending financial outlay.

Cars and women.

If it were me I'd get the car back, take the money and swallow the loss (which it appears you're doing). The cost of trying to get the other £345 just won't be worth it

I'd also go and lease a cheap car. If you hunt around you can get something small and decent for £150 a month, chances are you wont have any tax to pay, no MOT to pay and you'll be getting 60mpg. Figure out the total cost of running a 10 year old Mondeo and I'd imagine the difference would be palatable

Don't rush it, hire a car to go away and do a bit of research while on holiday. What Car is a great place to start, they have loads of great deals
 


spongy

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2011
2,759
Burgess Hill
She's looking at a kia Venga on a 15 plate. 1.6 diesel thing.

3 days a week it will go from Hassocks>woodingdean>Shoreham>woodingdean>Hassocks soo about 30-40 miles a day commuting and picking up little'un from day care. In Sept she goes to nursery full time so just to Shoreham and back.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,264
...
The last thing she mentioned last night going to bed was "can we go to kia and buy a new car?"

So I'm right back where I ****ing started.

:lolol: i was expecting that as i started the story. one question though, why get a diesel Mondeo when sounds like she wants a Kia, presumably she has an eye an hatch back?
 




spongy

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2011
2,759
Burgess Hill
She just wanted a new reliable car. Thing is she really liked the Mondeo. Decent size. Massive boot. Got enough grunt to satisfy me (just). In our ownership we've been getting 55mpg out of it according to the trip computer. It's big enough and comfy. Plenty of room in the rear for our daughter to be in her car seat and not be kicking the back of mine in the front.

She just wants a kia because of her family. Her dad has been using the same salesman for years. When the salesman moved from Renault to kia he followed. He's on his 5th I think now. He's just chopped in their cee'd for a brand spanking new Sportage. Her sister has just got a new Sportage from there too. Even her auntie buys from there now. Thats the only reason. She wants to be like them.

We can technically afford it right now but we were talking about trying for number 2 within the year as I'm beginning to push 40. When she inevitably goes on maternity and will not return to work full time it becomes unaffordable and will,put me under more pressure to work even longer than I do now. But she doesn't see that.
 


GoldWithFalmer

Seaweed! Seaweed!
Apr 24, 2011
12,687
SouthCoast
She's looking at a kia Venga on a 15 plate. 1.6 diesel thing.

3 days a week it will go from Hassocks>woodingdean>Shoreham>woodingdean>Hassocks soo about 30-40 miles a day commuting and picking up little'un from day care. In Sept she goes to nursery full time so just to Shoreham and back.

AVOID DIESEL for that type of driving ,my missus has a diesel and does similar journeys,i have had to thrash it to hell and back to clear it of (not oil never uses a drop,it's DPF and ERG were blocked through lack of regeneration) No Power & black smoke,it's now ok and i take it to work twice a week now for longer runs driven harder too.......

check out the facts on diesels they are a dying breed,we not getting rid of ours yet though...

£2000 scrap age scheme coming up- for your old diesel off the price of a new car..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/02/diesel-drivers-will-paid-scrap-cars-improve-air-quality/
 


Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,477
Telford
The sale of goods act is quite clear on this.

In essence - the vehicle must not be misrepresented [lied about] either in an advert, supporting documentation, or verbal conversation.
The buyer should be given opportunity to inspect goods before purchase and this protects the seller with "buyer beware" - you have the option to accept the sellers "invitation to treat" [aka asking price for goods on offer] or negotiate a deal with a counter offer - when both parties agree the deal, this forms a contract [for a verbal contract, usually sealed by a handshake].

Now, if the goods subsequently fail, the buyer must prove the goods were either miss-old [lied about], or for new goods, faulty manufacture [covered by warranty aka statutory rights]. For a secondhand car, the problem is, something could fail at any moment [example is a bulb that might work today, but might not tomorrow] - with anything mechanical [like a s/h car] there are used car warranty schemes that can be taken out, some dealers bundle this into the deal for free - this gives a period of cover for some key components [but not wear and tear items like tyres and brakes].

If the seller is offering you £200 towards repairs, this sounds like a gesture of goodwill and is probably the best outcome you might get. You cannot claim for any additional expense you have paid out since buying the car since the dealer had no say in this. If they're offering full purchase price back this is also the sign IMHO of a dealer that's not being difficult and genuinely wants to try and rectify.

Unfortunately, once you own the car, all repairs are your responsibility - unless you have a warranty in place to lean on .....

Edit: just had an after-thought - another possible remedy is to see if you can negotiate a repair deal with the seller - maybe, you agree to pay for the parts and he covers the labour ...
 
Last edited:




grubbyhands

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2011
2,283
Godalming
For what it's worth in my experience the next thing to fail will be the starter motor as all the crap from the deteriorating dual mass flywheel will kill the armature. All of these are very common and well documented problems with the Mondeo of that age. It is possible to fit a solid flywheel with an appropriate new clutch and the problem won't recur.I hope you get sorted and get your holiday.
 


Diablo

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Sep 22, 2014
4,173
lewes
Yes it is the replacement. I currently have 3 cars outside. Mine and two of hers.

I put a new egr valve on the old one yesterday afternoon and the old one is now fixed. At a cost of £50. But she has lost confidence in it and says she's scared of it breaking down again when she's got our little'un in the back seat. Which I can understand.

She originally wanted to go to Kia at Pyecombe and spend £11k on a brand new car. I didn't hear the end of it, even had her parents banging on about it at me and putting,me under so much pressure.

I held my nerve with them and said I wouldn't do that but I will do something for her. So I stretched myself and got what seemed like a good deal. But it hasn't been and now I'm even more out of pocket.

I'm not pissing about any more. The dealer has offered a full refund which I am going to take. I just want him to pay for the work that I've already carried out. Which he is refusing to do.

The car is going back tomorrow, her dad is gonna follow her up in their car when she returns it as unfortunately I am off to Villa tomorrow. I've been looking forward to this game since the start of the season so I am loathed to miss it.

Her dad will do the right thing with her so at least I'm happy on,that count.

Going to have to use the refunded money from the car, insurance and tax to pay off the cards and see where we stand. Everything has been moved about and balance transferred so everything is at 0% until early next year. Just need to get everything paid off and find her another car sharpish.

The last thing she mentioned last night going to bed was "can we go to kia and buy a new car?"

So I'm right back where I ****ing started. Things are tight anyway and she wants,to go and spend 230 a month to borrow a car for 3 years. I know all servicing and mot's are covered in the deal and she should in theory have a new reliable car to drive but it's expensive. And never ending financial outlay.

Cars and women.

Like others sorry to hear your woes....You got a bad un....My advice is don`t buy new car over three years......Unless you really have to only thing to borrowing money for car is bad news..
 


carlzeiss

Well-known member
May 19, 2009
5,830
Amazonia
Like others sorry to hear your woes....You got a bad un....My advice is don`t buy new car over three years......Unless you really have to only thing to borrowing money for car is bad news..

You can drive a new car for the cost of 20 ciggys a day on a PCP deal if you look around
 








Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
Apparently if you miss one payment on a lease deal (or it goes through late), the company may repossess the car and prohibit you from using the same scheme again for a couple of years. So be careful before you sign anything and read all the paperwork carefully and in full.
 



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