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Brighton and Hove Schools - Budget Cuts



Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Hangleton Primary - £100k down for 2017/18
Benfield Primary - £48k down for 2017/18
Hove Park - not sure of the figures, but a letter going out warning parents of the cuts to come.

These are fundamental cuts to our children's educations. This isn't messing around cutting a bit of excess spending, this is actual front line teaching at stake, core subject areas.

Brighton and Hove actually have too many Primary School places right now. They can, and probably should start to reduce a class intact from one or two schools, BUT the ridiculous policy decisions of the government is that they have provided more money to set up FREE SCHOOLS. It is madness. We don't need any new schools, there is an excess of places, but you could get a grant to set up a new school tomorrow – in spite of current schools desperately needing additional funding.

It is truly ridiculous, both at central government level, and to some degree the long term planning (or lack of) at our local government level.

Just when so many of B&H schools have worked so hard to get their standards up and attainment levels so high, the rug is being pulled well and truly out from under them.
 




CheeseRolls

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 27, 2009
5,922
Shoreham Beach
Hangleton Primary - £100k down for 2017/18
Benfield Primary - £48k down for 2017/18
Hove Park - not sure of the figures, but a letter going out warning parents of the cuts to come.

These are fundamental cuts to our children's educations. This isn't messing around cutting a bit of excess spending, this is actual front line teaching at stake, core subject areas.

Brighton and Hove actually have too many Primary School places right now. They can, and probably should start to reduce a class intact from one or two schools, BUT the ridiculous policy decisions of the government is that they have provided more money to set up FREE SCHOOLS. It is madness. We don't need any new schools, there is an excess of places, but you could get a grant to set up a new school tomorrow – in spite of current schools desperately needing additional funding.

It is truly ridiculous, both at central government level, and to some degree the long term planning (or lack of) at our local government level.

Just when so many of B&H schools have worked so hard to get their standards up and attainment levels so high, the rug is being pulled well and truly out from under them.

Mrs Rolls Secondary school in West Sussex managed to get allocated less students than capacity next year, but also less students than had actually selected the school as their first choice. Net result even deeper cuts.

Still as long as the new free school doesn't look like a white elephant, I guess market forces are prevailing.
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Mrs Rolls Secondary school in West Sussex managed to get allocated less students than capacity next year, but also less students than had actually selected the school as their first choice. Net result even deeper cuts.

Still as long as the new free school doesn't look like a white elephant, I guess market forces are prevailing.

Since when should market forces dictate the equality of education for all? Surely there is no market force in education. Should it not be a fundamental goal to ensure every single child has access to an equal standard of education to all others? If an authority has a surplus of places, surely there is no requirement to open a new school, and certainly not with public funding.

If you are a believer in these free schools popping up, then surely these should only be funded where a shortage of places exists or is projected. Funding a new school where there are a surplus of places is just waste. I thought the whole point was to save against waste, not create more.
 
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Moshe Gariani

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2005
12,068
Since when should market forces dictate the equality of education for all? Surely there is no market force in education. Should it not be a fundamental goal to ensure every single child has access to an equal standard of education to all others? If an authority has a surplus of places, surely there is no requirement to open a new school, and certainly not with public funding.

If you are a believer in these free schools popping up, then surely these should only be funded where a shortage of places exists or is projected. Funding a new school where there are a surplus of places is just waste. I thought the whole point was to save against waste, not create more.
For Gildredge House free school in Eastbourne there was no problem finding £14m to acquire and refit/extend the Dental Practice Board buildings. We already had the required number of decent secondary school places available in Eastbourne.

Free schools are a scandal. Gildredge House in Eastbourne provides a worst possible example of what is wrong with them. Keeping lots of Tory voters happy though so not a problem.
 




cloud

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2011
3,028
Here, there and everywhere
I think this will lead to an increase in home schooling. The standard of education in schools is in freefall. There are generations of people who missed out on a decent education who are now teaching the next generation. At my son's school the teachers have no experience of what a good education is.

I seem to spend an increasing amount of time having to teach my son the basics, such as grammar, punctuation and spelling, art, music, sport and languages, because the school is not interested in subjects unless they are 'core' subjects. Bullying is rife and the teachers don't know how to handle it. The children have to mark each others' homework as the teacher is too busy. The school probably needs a new head teacher, but who would take a job that is a poisoned chalice, with so much pressure, high staff turnover etc.
 




Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,547
Fiveways
Since when should market forces dictate the equality of education for all? Surely there is no market force in education. Should it not be a fundamental goal to ensure every single child has access to an equal standard of education to all others? If an authority has a surplus of places, surely there is no requirement to open a new school, and certainly not with public funding.

If you are a believer in these free schools popping up, then surely these should only be funded where a shortage of places exists or is projected. Funding a new school where there are a surplus of places is just waste. I thought the whole point was to save against waste, not create more.

You don't want market forces to operate in schools, and neither do I. But there are plenty of people that do, and that particular narrative is the one that is currently proving more successful. Most of it is achieved by subterfuge, however, rather than the public actually endorsing it.
Theresa Grammar School May will come to rue the inaugural words she spoke on the steps of Downing Street, but there will be a delay in the provincial recognition that really she's not on their side. A previous Conservative PM's inaugural words included the following from St Francis of Assisi "where there is discord, let us bring harmony". Within half a decade she was prosecuting class war on the miners.
 




cloud

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2011
3,028
Here, there and everywhere
If an authority has a surplus of places, surely there is no requirement to open a new school, and certainly not with public funding..

Maybe it's a way of setting up new mega-large schools, so they can then close the smaller local schools?

In my area (Buckinghamshire) less than 50% of grammar school pupils are local children who passed the 11+. So more than half are either children who failed and got in on appeal, or those living outside the area. It's not unusual round here to have an hour or more's commute to school each direction. Many come in from adjacent counties. So maybe this is what they are angling for, cutting costs by having fewer schools and the parents bear the burden of the commute.

OK I might get flamed for saying this, but Teresa May doesn't have children and that will affect her outlook with regards to education.
 


Moshe Gariani

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2005
12,068
I seem to spend an increasing amount of time having to teach my son the basics, such as grammar, punctuation and spelling, art, music, sport and languages, because the school is not interested in subjects unless they are 'core' subjects. Bullying is rife and the teachers don't know how to handle it. The children have to mark each others' homework as the teacher is too busy.
This is the reality of state education under the Tories and it is only getting worse.

My son is lucky to be at a "good" primary school where the teachers try hard and are supported by generally advantaged parents. But the standard of education he is experiencing is pathetically low.

At the latest parent consultation the teacher had literally nothing to say about how he was getting on or anything he needed to do better. I'm not surprised as she has 34 children in the class most of whom need/get more attention than Moshe Jnr but it is very frustrating. He is a bright boy (aren't they all..?!) but the odds are stacked against him ending up "well educated" as a result of state provision in the next 8 years he will be at school - and that is a scandal.

His cousins (10-20 years older) had the benefit of growing up under a Labour government who invested properly in state education. Makes me puke that the Tories will get away with what they plan to do because they can easily get re-elected without winning a majority of votes from families with kids at state schools.
 






CheeseRolls

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 27, 2009
5,922
Shoreham Beach
Since when should market forces dictate the equality of education for all? Surely there is no market force in education. Should it not be a fundamental goal to ensure every single child has access to an equal standard of education to all others? If an authority has a surplus of places, surely there is no requirement to open a new school, and certainly not with public funding.

If you are a believer in these free schools popping up, then surely these should only be funded where a shortage of places exists or is projected. Funding a new school where there are a surplus of places is just waste. I thought the whole point was to save against waste, not create more.

Just for clarity - I am neither an advocate of free schools, or market forces in education.
 


ROKERITE

Active member
Dec 30, 2007
719
Maybe it's a way of setting up new mega-large schools, so they can then close the smaller local schools?



OK I might get flamed for saying this, but Teresa May doesn't have children and that will affect her outlook with regards to education.

Why should you be flamed? nasty ignorance is expected from the malicious left. In fairness to you, Mrs May suffered a similar slur from the right-wing Angela Leadsom during the leadership election, so you're in good company there. It doesn't stop it being a stupid, deeply unpleasant thing to say.
I'm not a big fan of Mrs May but her support for a new generation of Grammar Schools is one policy I am fully behind. It'll be difficult to undo fifty years and more of the disastrous comprehensive system but at least she's trying.
 


Jim Van Winkle

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
3,125
Hawaii
Who would have thought cuts in education under a Tory government. Well I never -- best hide the family silverware they will be round shortly.
 




Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Why should you be flamed? nasty ignorance is expected from the malicious left. In fairness to you, Mrs May suffered a similar slur from the right-wing Angela Leadsom during the leadership election, so you're in good company there. It doesn't stop it being a stupid, deeply unpleasant thing to say.
I'm not a big fan of Mrs May but her support for a new generation of Grammar Schools is one policy I am fully behind. It'll be difficult to undo fifty years and more of the disastrous comprehensive system but at least she's trying.

Even Sir Michael Wilshaw, derided by many as a Tory stooge when in charge of Ofsted has condemned the thought of Grammar Schools returning. You are living in ancient history if you believe a 2 tiered education system with your future decided upon at age 10 or 11 is a good thing. As Winslow has gone onto say, in his years of running Ofsted it would be a disaster to return to the days of selection based upon ability at such a young age, and a society that would view those not coming through a Grammar as educational failures.

The only thing Grammar Schools gives you is the ability to select which schools you fund and which schools you don't. It created an underclass amoung our children 50 years ago, and it would do the same today.

Only the 50+ age group, with their full salary pensions, property equity and all the other benefits today's generations will not see can hark back to some perceived golden age of Grammar school education.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/09/05/sir-michael-wilshaw-bringing-back-grammar-schools-is-tosh-and-no/
 


deletebeepbeepbeep

Well-known member
May 12, 2009
20,889
Maybe it's a way of setting up new mega-large schools, so they can then close the smaller local schools?

OK I might get flamed for saying this, but Teresa May doesn't have children and that will affect her outlook with regards to education.

I think its more to do with her being a raving Tory.
 


cloud

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2011
3,028
Here, there and everywhere
I'm not a big fan of Mrs May but her support for a new generation of Grammar Schools is one policy I am fully behind. It'll be difficult to undo fifty years and more of the disastrous comprehensive system but at least she's trying.

I don't think grammar schools are the answer, and I am about to remove my son from his grammar school. I am not the only parent in his year to be doing this. They are trading off the reputation they had 20-50 years ago, which is different to the reality now. They are somehow seen as some kind of elite, academic environment, but times have changed. Much of the time the children have to teach themselves by going online. The teacher gets them to look up the lesson material on their phones during the class, rather than teaching them. They are taught art by the PE teacher as the art teachers all left. They can't go on school trips because the school can't spare the teachers to accompany them, so they draw ballots to see who can go. Many sports lessons are cancelled as they have to rent out the facilities to other schools.My point is that too many people rely on 'advisors' rather than speaking and acting from first-hand experience.
 


Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,477
Telford
Only the 50+ age group, with their full salary pensions, property equity and all the other benefits today's generations will not see can hark back to some perceived golden age of Grammar school education.

50+ age group = check
Final [not full] Salary pension = check
Property equity = check [but still paying for my endowment shortfall [aka not a benefit]
Grammar school education = err no - I failed my 11-plus

However, I was still able to get a BA(Hons) 2:1 at the age of 33 - so education can be done a different way ..... not easy, but possible, and very worthwhile.
 




Blackadder

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 6, 2003
16,077
Haywards Heath
Only the 50+ age group, with their full salary pensions, property equity and all the other benefits today's generations will not see can hark back to some perceived golden age of Grammar school education.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/09/05/sir-michael-wilshaw-bringing-back-grammar-schools-is-tosh-and-no/

50+ age group = check
Final [not full] Salary pension = check
Property equity = check [but still paying for my endowment shortfall [aka not a benefit]
Grammar school education = err no - I failed my 11-plus

However, I was still able to get a BA(Hons) 2:1 at the age of 33 - so education can be done a different way ..... not easy, but possible, and very worthwhile.

50+ age group = check
Final [not full] Salary pension = check
Property equity = check
Grammar school education = Check

I didn't go to University.

Do I want the Grammar schools back? Hell no.

Both my sons went to very good comprehensive schools in the Mid Sussex area. They were all good 20 years ago. (Not sure how they are faring today, as none of my friends have kids still at school).

many people voted for the tories as they wanted to get the deficit down. The trouble is no one wants the cuts to affect them (just like no one want to be the one to pay extra taxes - others should do it)

FWIW I would keep funding the Health Service and education, as they are both important to the well being of the economy.

I am going to be a little controversial here. I will be a pensioner myself in a few years but I would start looking at the triple lock pension and some of the other benefits OAPs receive (some of whom are very wealthy). It's only fair that the burden is shared.... It won't happen of course, us oldies vote.
 


CheeseRolls

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 27, 2009
5,922
Shoreham Beach
Why should you be flamed? nasty ignorance is expected from the malicious left. In fairness to you, Mrs May suffered a similar slur from the right-wing Angela Leadsom during the leadership election, so you're in good company there. It doesn't stop it being a stupid, deeply unpleasant thing to say.
I'm not a big fan of Mrs May but her support for a new generation of Grammar Schools is one policy I am fully behind. It'll be difficult to undo fifty years and more of the disastrous comprehensive system but at least she's trying.

I am not sure this statement was made with anywhere near the malice you have attached, but never mind.

What I really struggle to understand, is that 50 years ago, only a tiny percentage of the population needed to go into higher education, so a selective system made sense. In the modern world we need EVERYONE to be qualified, even those focussing on traditional vocational careers. Grammar schools make less sense than free schools and they are at best a social experiment.
 



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