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Bred kids do not make a team



Sussex Nomad

Well-known member
Aug 26, 2010
18,185
EP
The reason I say this, how many clubs, especially Prem, live on their kids? Most are a farm to make money, Southampton being the biggest farm.

My question is: Why is everyone so obsessed by kids, when in reality we'll get one or two out of our academy every decade?
 






carteater

Well-known member
Jan 1, 2014
4,825
West Sussex
People are obsessed with kids as they want Bred Kids to make a team.

Especially when Sky, BT and international broadcaster's interests move to China and expensive foreign players do so as well. :rolleyes:.
 


Munkfish

Well-known member
May 1, 2006
11,861
Great reply, do you have another one?

I am struggling to understand your point.

In the last Decade we have produced. Tommy Elphick, Steve Cook, Grant Hall, Lewis Dunk, JFC, Solly March and Rohan Ince who have all played a large amount of games in the Championship or above. You can also then add Bradly Barry, Glenn Rea, Christian Walton, Brennen Dickinson who have all played a decent amount of proffesional football.

Building a Team around players from the youth ranks is rare although I believe maybe 2007 in the FA Cup we almost fielded a whole team of youth players under Dean Wilkins and we later went on to finish in league 1 that season. So it is possible.

However of course it is key to bring young players through its generally low cost and low risk compared to signing an unknown such as Manu. I dont know the annual costs for the DS team but id be suprised if they all were on as much as Manu combined. One succssesful player could cover the cost for many years to come.
 




Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
I am struggling to understand your point.

In the last Decade we have produced. Tommy Elphick, Steve Cook, Grant Hall, Lewis Dunk, JFC, Solly March and Rohan Ince who have all played a large amount of games in the Championship or above. You can also then add Bradly Barry, Glenn Rea, Christian Walton, Brennen Dickinson who have all played a decent amount of proffesional football.

Building a Team around players from the youth ranks is rare although I believe maybe 2007 in the FA Cup we almost fielded a whole team of youth players under Dean Wilkins and we later went on to finish in league 1 that season. So it is possible.

However of course it is key to bring young players through its generally low cost and low risk compared to signing an unknown such as Manu. I dont know the annual costs for the DS team but id be suprised if they all were on as much as Manu combined. One succssesful player could cover the cost for many years to come.

We bought these
 




Guy Fawkes

The voice of treason
Sep 29, 2007
8,187
The reason I say this, how many clubs, especially Prem, live on their kids? Most are a farm to make money, Southampton being the biggest farm.

My question is: Why is everyone so obsessed by kids, when in reality we'll get one or two out of our academy every decade?

How much more expensive would it be to buy in players instead?

You normally end up paying an inflated fee or big signing bonus to get them to join (that's if they decide to pick you over, say Norwich) - How much would we have had to pay for Dunk and the other homegrown players in our team (would we have even persuaded them to join us) or would we have a poorer squad and therefore not doing as well in the league? They often start out on lower wages too

You can end up with a stronger squad for your investment with players from your youth team, plus if you end up selling them, you make the whole fee as profit rather than only the extra you received from what you'd paid to buy them in and there wont be any sell on clauses either
 




BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
I am struggling to understand your point.

In the last Decade we have produced. Tommy Elphick, Steve Cook, Grant Hall, Lewis Dunk, JFC, Solly March and Rohan Ince who have all played a large amount of games in the Championship or above. You can also then add Bradly Barry, Glenn Rea, Christian Walton, Brennen Dickinson who have all played a decent amount of proffesional football.

Building a Team around players from the youth ranks is rare although I believe maybe 2007 in the FA Cup we almost fielded a whole team of youth players under Dean Wilkins and we later went on to finish in league 1 that season. So it is possible.

However of course it is key to bring young players through its generally low cost and low risk compared to signing an unknown such as Manu. I dont know the annual costs for the DS team but id be suprised if they all were on as much as Manu combined. One succssesful player could cover the cost for many years to come.

I agree in part, I would question that 'we' produced many of them though but I accept they were introduced to a professional first team level whilst with us, if for one moment we assume that hardly any of them were automatically deemed wonder kids, for me it shows how important opportunity and policy plays such a firm part in any talented kids future.

So back to the OP yes it might save money if you can get a Lewis Dunk every now and then, but a couple coming through every decade isnt a good enough return and will eventually deem our Academy a waste of time and money, I think also clubs have a personal responsibility to the hundreds of young kids they bring in each year from age of 6 whilst encouraging total committment to football ahead of everything else in their lives to offer at least a realistic chance of accessing a professional career when actually sometimes those clubs either do not have the skill sets nor the inclination to realistically offer a pathway into professional game.
 


Sussex Nomad

Well-known member
Aug 26, 2010
18,185
EP
In the current generation, where we have also made money, we have only brought through Dunk, I could say March but he came through non league. What have we actually produced that if we haven't kept has made us a few quid?
 






looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
A couple of points.

Arsenal won the title with a generation of their youth players coming through, tony Adams etc.


its one of those things imo that goes to prevent damage. Lacking a proper academy allows teams like Stains to exstend their catchment area to hoover up talent. With the Albion and other teams, south Ldn i beleive, developing academies will make it harder and make sure we do not miss out on players. No area or county breeds good players so not only will we cover Sussex we will also cover a fair bit of Kent as well as maybe bits of Surrey etc.

The fact remains we do have a potentially large catchment are and pound for pound should do better getting talent than a lot of other teams, also depends on how well we scout as well.
 


AZ Gull

@SeagullsAcademy Threads: @bhafcacademy
Oct 14, 2003
11,587
Chandler, AZ
In the current generation, where we have also made money, we have only brought through Dunk, I could say March but he came through non league. What have we actually produced that if we haven't kept has made us a few quid?

Grant Hall moved to Spurs at the end of the 2011-12 season. Spurs were required to pay a fee that was never revealed, and amounts ranging from £100k to £1million have been suggested.

Earlier that season Steve Cook moved to Bournemouth for a fee that was reported as an initial £170k, potentially rising to £300k with add-ons.

In 2012-13 Tommy Elphick also moved to Bournemouth for a fee reported as £200k upfront. It was also reported, when he was signed by Aston Villa, that we had a sell-on, although the figure has not been revealed.

In 2013-14 Adam El-Abd signed for Bristol City for a "five-figure" fee. Brennan Dickenson and George Barker moved to Gillingham and Swindon respectively, for undisclosed fees.

Last season Charlie Harris and Glen Rea moved to Barnsley and Luton for undisclosed fees.

And, of course, JFC has just moved to Charlton for an undisclosed fee.
 


Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,025
West Sussex
.. but a couple coming through every decade isnt a good enough return and will eventually deem our Academy a waste of time and money...

Two Lewis Dunk's in 10 years... worth a possible promotion to the Premier League and something like £10m each... that's £2m a season... seems like fair enough value to me.
 




Munkfish

Well-known member
May 1, 2006
11,861
I agree in part, I would question that 'we' produced many of them though but I accept they were introduced to a professional first team level whilst with us, if for one moment we assume that hardly any of them were automatically deemed wonder kids, for me it shows how important opportunity and policy plays such a firm part in any talented kids future.

So back to the OP yes it might save money if you can get a Lewis Dunk every now and then, but a couple coming through every decade isnt a good enough return and will eventually deem our Academy a waste of time and money, I think also clubs have a personal responsibility to the hundreds of young kids they bring in each year from age of 6 whilst encouraging total committment to football ahead of everything else in their lives to offer at least a realistic chance of accessing a professional career when actually sometimes those clubs either do not have the skill sets nor the inclination to realistically offer a pathway into professional game.

I think you are being harsh on the club as whole if you dont count them as youth products. The club have invested time and money and provided oppotunities. Just because they didnt sign on at nine doesn't mean they never were a product of the youth acadamy.
 


Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
9,756
saaf of the water
I'm confident that there will be a couple more lads from the current youth set up in the first team in a few years time. Be patient.

Obviously if we were to go up, then it becomes harder for home grown talent, as we will sign some 'ready made' premiership players. But cream will always rise to the top, and as the old saying goes, if you're good enough you're old enough.
 




BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Two Lewis Dunk's in 10 years... worth a possible promotion to the Premier League and something like £10m each... that's £2m a season... seems like fair enough value to me.

Lewis Dunk came through when our Centre of Excellence was run on an annual budget three and sixpence, even so and we can argue the toss on whom we might sell and at what price, worth remembering that our Cat 1 annual minimum cost is in excess of £2.5 million per annum.
 




BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
I think you are being harsh on the club as whole if you dont count them as youth products. The club have invested time and money and provided oppotunities. Just because they didnt sign on at nine doesn't mean they never were a product of the youth acadamy.

I dont mean to be harsh, I am just pointing out that perhaps clubs generally like to cite 'youth products' when sometimes that individual players progress has more to do with circumstance rather than some perceived club strategy.
 


Munkfish

Well-known member
May 1, 2006
11,861
I dont mean to be harsh, I am just pointing out that perhaps clubs generally like to cite 'youth products' when sometimes that individual players progress has more to do with circumstance rather than some perceived club strategy.

I assume you are talking JFC here? At 15 he had a load of clubs in for him and he chose to stay at Brighton.
 



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